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Thread: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

  1. #61
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Teabagees just love government intrusion, seems teabagees don't mind taking thier shoes off for underpayed federal bufoons... I guess it makes sense as it is a form of "taking it"
    You must disdain teapartiers more than I thought. Seems like instead of people picking things they hate about the tea'rs ya guys instead pick anything you dont like and say, "Yep... Thats the tea party." Matching his sarcasm just to get your lil "Teabaggers are gay" jab in?
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    If someone is 27 and a diplomat then obviously they have been kicking ass at their profession early.
    Or more likely in the Mideast, he got the position through family connections.
    Last edited by WillRockwell; 04-09-10 at 12:28 PM.

  3. #63
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Or more likely, they have family connections.
    Would you be under the same assumption if he was white?
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  4. #64
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Or more likely in the Mideast, he got the position through family connections.
    Oh I see... You a racist.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Would you be under the same assumption if he was white?
    I thought he was white

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I thought he was white
    I dunno I saw where he was a diplomat from and assumed he was brown.
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Oh I see... You a racist.
    Actually, he was making a cogent point. In many of those small Middle-East sultanates, that is EXACTLY how you get coveted governmental positions!
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  8. #68
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    No the Russians do not have McVeigh's because our boy McVeigh atacked his own people and his own government. The "Russians" at thsi point in time are being slapped back by the captive people who the Russians incorporated by force into the Russian empire. These minorty populations such as the Chechens only want to "TAKE THEIR COUNTRY BACK" so they are patriots but it's the Russians who are the terrorists. The fact that the Chechens are Mus;im is an accident of history. The fight is the people who deserve to be free and independent against the terrorist barbaric imperialistic Russians. Nothing else.
    It's a Soviet/Russian problem to be solved by them. I belive you are smart enough to have grasped my point.


    It seems there's a lot of "accidents of history" these days considering the degree of Muslim involvement everywhere. But, people deserve to be free? Does this extend to the Middle East too?

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    See that certainty scares me, because to be so certain about such an uncertain situation tells of a lack of understanding about the situation.
    It's only uncertain to the ignorant who have decided that an illusion is easier than the reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    China has actually engaged in several subtle acts aimed at the US, mostly digital attacks but hostile actions none the less. China DOES hate the US, this shouldnt be news. Now why arent you slobbering paranoia over China?
    Because we are not at war with China. What is it with your obsession with a fantasized war with China? I guarantee if you enlist you won't be deployed to China. We have friction with China and others. In the end this is all there is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    China has a massive military, economic ties to virtually every other country in the world, and a very dedicated population. China does not need the US.
    China is invested in a healthy U.S. and relies heavily on selling goods to the U.S. China is as much stuck to this uneasy contract as the U.S. And China's military is landlocked, without experience, and without proper combined arms training. What are you afraid of? Do you really think China is going to put America to the test and attack Taiwan? Or that America would deploy into a mass war with China over Taiwan? How long did it take to deal with Russia over Georgia? China is not trying to disrupt their economic stability with the U.S. anymore than we want to disrupt ours with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    You mean the FIRST attack on the WTC meant nothing?
    You tell me. The FIRST attack on the WTC was treated as a criminal effort and set apart from everything the military was going through. It wasn't until 9/11 that civilians gave a damn about finally striking back. By that time plenty of terrorist attacks upon military personnel went unavenged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Proof?
    Do yourself a favor....

    [ame=http://www.amazon.com/America-Between-Wars-11/dp/1586484966]Amazon.com: America Between the Wars: From 11/9 to 9/11 (9781586484965): Derek Chollet, James Goldgeier: Books[/ame]

    Asking me for "proof" of this is like telling me I have to prove we need oxygen. Quick little Google searches for wisdom is why so many people are wandering about in the dark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Because there are far less than a million terrorists in the world and there's plenty we can do to cut their legs out from under them.
    Which is what we were finally allowed to do since civilians died on 9/11. And in the year 2010, no Chinese attacks have occurred. How much you want to bet that in 2020 the Defense Industry and people like you will still be preaching of the great American/Chinese War to come?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    If you paid attention to events in the Far East, you'd know that there's simmering tension between the US and China over Taiwan and we are currently allied with Taiwan for economic reasons.
    Sounds like more crap people will rally behind in the moment, but criticize us for our position later for. "Simmering" tensions behind these matters is a fact of life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Except that many prominent Sunni reject the idea that Wahhabism is a sect of Sunni Islam.
    The fact that plenty have not rejected it or have merely celebrated complacency towards the rhetoric is exactly why we have an enemy and not a few "rogues" of Islam. Focus on the shop keepers and sheep herders if you will. I'll focus on my enemy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    How has Islam developed into a focus on the Sunni faction?
    Here...

    [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Islam-Muslims-Reform-Faith/dp/0312326998]Amazon.com: The Trouble with Islam: A Muslim's Call for Reform in Her Faith (9780312326999): Irshad Manji: Books[/ame]

    First you have to match up the very similar paths of Christianity and Islam. Until the Protestant movement, Christianity was written in Latin only and ultimate power over the soul was given to the clergy (absolve and damnation). Furthermore, the center of Christianity was towards Rome. Everyone agrees that this religious control was much about maintaining power and order.

    Now flip over to Islam, which has not had a reformation. This is where people become "politicially correct" and refuse to analyze and take a good look. The center of Islam is Mecca, the center of the Arab tribe . All face Mecca to pray. All are instructed to pray in Arabic. Now if God is everywhere as the Qu'ran instructs, why must Muslims pray towards a specific place? If God can speak all tongues as the Qu'ran states, why must Muslims pray in Arabic?

    Sunni Arabs have spent centuries looking down upon other tribes of Muslims because Muhammad was one of them. And since the Prophet was one of them, then it becomes legitimate that all should cater towards the Sunni way. It was the Sunni in the Arab deserts that denied the Ottoman Caliphate its attempts to reform the religion and develop.

    In the 20th century, Islam, as an organizing tool, began to fail. The onset of nationalism and secularism bewildered the diehard of Islam and fanaticism began to emerge. People like to place blame on the West, especially America, for all the region's troubles, but all blame goes to the inability of the Sunni culture to rise above its own damaging insecurities. All bad decisions in the Middle east can be traced right back to Sunni instigations and creations. Ever notice how quiet Muslims in the Middle east are when non-Arabs are being slaughtered? The Middle Eastern media virtualy ignored Sudan. It places all blame in Iraq upon American hands even though it is the Sunni that slaughters. The failed Arab/Israeli Wars have all been Sunni driven. Losing the religious importance of Iraq to the Shia was of more importance to Arab nations than deposing the dictator that slaughtered Muslims. No Arab government has truly addressed the Sunni extremist organizations in their midst unless they threaten their local governments.

    And to this day, the "power of the mosque" in Islam remains, well after the "power of the church" in Christianity waned. And this power goes directly to centuries old Sunni prescriptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    And I think it's astoundingly stupid to assign those symptoms to Islam.
    You're just not getting this. It's not hard if you remove yourself from the politically correct position of denial. They are assigned...pause for effect...to "Middle Eastern" cultural prescriptions. Ever notice that the further Muslims get away from this region the healthier and more successful they are? This is true for all three monotheistic religions. Christianity became truly powerful once it was evicted out of the Middle East and developed civilization in Europe. Jews became extremely successful in Europe before Europeans scapegoated them for everything. But what of Islam in the Middle East?

    Once the capital of the sciences, Sunni Arabs turned back the clock immediately after the Crusades. The real victors of the Crusades weren't Arab Muslims. They were Muslim Ottoman Turks (converts). The culture that has spawned out of the heartland of Islam is soaked in stagnation and blame. A lack of sincerety towards education and progression. A general confusion of what a "good" Muslim means as they are bombarded with religious fundamentalism and throwbacks to Muhammad examples of violence.

    The proper conclusion is that Islam has a Middle Eastern problem....not the other way around. There is a clear disease in this region. Terrorism is its symptom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    There are several factors in play and again it ignores the fact that the majority of Muslims live peaceful and quiet lives, regardless of what they think.
    And how many Russians lived peaceful and quiet lives during the Cold War? How many Japanese never saw the war until Hiroshima and Nagasaki? yet we had our enemies didn't we? It's not "what I think" rather than what I know. Your political correctness has you denying what this enemy is.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    And how much of this is due to political leanings or religious ideas? The Taliban is a political movement and Al-Qaeda is deeply involved in the political processes of different countries. They are a religious movement, but their focus is, for the time being, mainly political.
    The Middle East is full of organizations that see slaughter in the name of God. So much destruction and hatred summed up by a "political leaning?" Even after 9/11 people still wish to pretend that our problems start and stop with one bearded man and his exaggerated justifactions to wage a war for God. read up on Qutb. Most Islamic terrorists are very familiar with him and his opinions of "God's enemy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    So I see, however obsessing over trying to justify a hatred is not conducive to an education.
    Neither is denial. I hate what I see. What have you seen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    You seem to be determined to treat the Middle East as if it's a special case and what happens there doesnt happen anywhere else for any other reason.
    Are you absolutely blind? The Middle East is a special case. Nowhere on earth is there another region so infested with tribal hatred, slaughter, and brutality. Nowehere on earth is there such a plethora of organizations funded by citizens all over the world and by governments. Nowhere in the world is such a mass of people so united in intense religion as the Middle East. And nowehere in the world is "God" such a motivating factor behind their politicial perversions. You have Western governments, western military and intel organizations, and even educated Muslims speaking out against what the Middle East is and you pretend that you have it figured better than they?

    You seem to want the Middle East to be something it is not even against the tidal wave of in your face reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    And this, to me, says you arent coming at this from any impartial or reasonable direction. You are looking for reasons to justify hating Islam and using a confirmation bias to dig yourself in.
    You remain in the dark because you belive criticizing the Middle East means hating Islam. Islam isn't the exact problem. The exact problem is the Middle East itself and the Sunni culture. There are prominent Muslims writers who write all about this. Ever hear of Vali Nasr? Irshad Manji? Perhaps they just hate Islam too, huh? You speak of education but deny yourself the reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Continuing a discussion of this nature with you is pointless because your mind is already made up. I am not prepared to waste my time throwing bricks in the Grand Canyon.
    Continuing a discussion with me over these matters is pointless because you don't have the proper background to have one. You exist on probablies, maybes, ifs, and certainlies. You simply don't know what you are talking about and assume to defend your imagination.
    Last edited by MSgt; 04-10-10 at 12:21 AM.

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    If someone is 27 and a diplomat then obviously they have been kicking ass at their profession early.
    .....Nepotism is an accepted Arab prescription. It's holdover from the Caliphate system.
    Last edited by MSgt; 04-09-10 at 11:59 PM.

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