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Thread: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

  1. #11
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    What I'm hearing is, the guy was smoking, and he put his cigarette out on his shoe. And because he was from Qatar, racist people like you think he is a terrorist rather than just a moron.
    It takes a real moron to light up a cigarette on a US domestic flight, much less put it out on his shoe. I call BS.

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Just one more isolated incident in a plethora of isolated incidents. One day even the most stubborn will have to take a better look at the civilization behind these "rogues" of Islam and acknowledge a pattern of violent intent.
    Then why are the vast majority of Muslims living quiet and unobtrusive lives and not bothering anyone?
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    It takes a real moron to light up a cigarette on a US domestic flight, much less put it out on his shoe. I call BS.
    It takes a moron to smoke anywhere.

    Minute-by-Minute, the Qatari Shoe Bomber Who Wasn't - International - The Atlantic
    ~8:30 Modadi enters the airport bathroom and lights a cigarette. A flight attendant, smelling smoke, alerts an air marshal, who confronts Modadi. At this point, accounts differ. Either Modadi jokes that he was trying to light his shoe on fire, a reference to Richard Reid, who in 2001 tried to ignite explosives hidden in his shoe while on a U.S. flight. Or, he puts the cigarette out on his shoe, causing the air marshal to fear Modadi, like Reid, may have had explosive in his shoe. It's possible both occur. The air marshal restrains Modadi.
    Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I don't believe in "culture".
    I don't act the way my family or neighbors do. I don't think a person's behavior is limited by their place of birth or their racial heritage. If there is a group of people who tend to become terrorists it is because of religion or politics, not genetic or regional. Their way of thinking is the same as yours.
    One, nobody said a thing about genetics.

    Two, if you think there is no difference between the "culture" of the West and the "culture" of the Middle East then you are worse than blind as a bat. A person's behavior is limited to what he limits it to. However, he is raised in a civilization or society that may base its diet on rice or meat or fish or vegetables or tropical fruit. He may be surrounded by a civilization that places less value on academic education and more value on religious education. He may be raised understanding God's prescriptions as more demanding than a person raised in a civilization where God exists only on Sundays for an hour or two before the football game. He may be raised in a civilization that has a long history of prescribed failure versus an individual who's region has a long history of success.

    All of this and so much more is culture. Such things develop mind sets and behaviors. There are cultural scientists who study why civiulizations become what they become and this is all based on culture. To state that there is no such thing as culture is ignorant.

    You are in denial. There is absolutely no way you can't see the absolute decay, destruction, mayhem, and slaughter between Sudan and Pakistan. So much tribal warfare between Muslims over the decades and you refuse "culture" as a problem or that culture even exists?

    I'm guessing you don't know much about this region since you easily dismiss the existence of a thing such as culture.

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Then why are the vast majority of Muslims living quiet and unobtrusive lives and not bothering anyone?
    Are you seriously asking or are you shut down in denial as well?


    The vast majority of Muslims are not radicals. And the vast majority of radicals are not terrorists. But our enemies are radicals and extremists and they are entirely all Muslim. There is a difference between an extremist, a radical, and an every day Muslim. Extremists exist within the sea of radicalism and radical Muslims number in the tens of thousands across the region. With numbers like this, there is no end of youth learning to hate foriegn devils and to celebrate scapegoating to further their hate. (Is it so hard to understand that two white racists from Alabama may breed a future clansman?) Look at it another way. Was all of Germany our enemy in WWII or just the Nazis? Certainly not all Germans were Nazis, but certainly many of them celebrated Nazi behaviors or apathetic. Our enemy wore more than just a German uniform didn't it? Would you rush to defend Germans in 1943? Why then do you and others rush to defend what you do not understand inside the Middle Eastern Arab Sunni (not Shia) culture? You assume and this is your first mistake.


    But, like other deniers, you fail to ask the right questions...

    Why are there so many that are terrorists and why are they all Sunni or associated to the Sunni tribe? Why are there so many so willing to slaughter even other Muslims and hasten to throw theiir own lives away? Why has even Al-Queda targetted far more Muslims than Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why is there so little voice of opposition against Islamic radicals and extremists in the "vastly majority of quiet and unobtrusive" Muslim Middle East? These are the things I study.

    I'm afraid pointing out the shop keeper at the corner doesn't cut it with this civilization. I know a fellow Marine who is a Muslim. Guess what enemy we share? We hardly hasten to ignore the disease behind the symptoms because it may be "racist" to talk ill of Muslims and their beloved superstitions in the ME. Such politically correct nonesense throughout the 90s ushered in 9/11 because our White House refused to "bash on a religion" when refusing intel reports from the Pentagon and CIA.
    Last edited by MSgt; 04-08-10 at 01:58 AM.

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Are you seriously asking or are you shut down in denial as well?


    The vast majority of Muslims are not radicals. And the vast majority of radicals are not terrorists. But our enemies are radicals and extremists and they are entirely all Muslim.
    All of our enemies are Muslims? The guy who flew a plane into the IRS building was not a Muslim. Kim Jong-il is not a Muslim. The Columbian and Mexican drug cartels are not Islamic. Radicals and extremists may be our enemy, but they come in all shapes and sizes. And since I live far away from the Middle East, I'm more worried about the Christian extremists than the Muslims. And I hope the Marine Corps isn't telling you that all of our enemies are Muslims.
    Last edited by Tsunami; 04-08-10 at 02:24 AM.
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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    The vast majority of Muslims are not radicals. And the vast majority of radicals are not terrorists. But our enemies are radicals and extremists and they are entirely all Muslim.
    I consider terrorists in general to be our enemy, and the IRA was not Muslim, the Hutaree are not Muslim. Narrowing the focus to terrorists not like us, while at the same time broadening the focus by going after those who are not really the enemy, they just look like some of the terrorists is a sure way to lose.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    All of our enemies are Muslims? The guy who flew a plane into the IRS building was not a Muslim. Kim Jong-il is not a Muslim. The Columbian and Mexican drug cartels are not Islamic. Radicals and extremists may be our enemy, but they come in all shapes and sizes. And since I live far away from the Middle East, I'm more worried about the Christian extremists than the Muslims. And I hope the Marine Corps isn't telling you that all of our enemies are Muslims.
    There's different levels of threats towards Americans.

    Kim Jong-il- Bluffing for money.

    Columbian and Mexican drug cartels- Unless you're an addict or drug runner i wouldnt worry bout that at the moment.

    flew a plane into the IRS- Unless you work for the feds i wouldnt worry.

    Christian extremists-Dont want to kill you.


    Muslim extremist
    - Want to destroy civilization.
    'In Hoc Signo Vinces'

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    This story is inaccurate. The man was a dignatary for Qatar who tried to sneak a smoke. He DID NOT try to ignite his shoes.

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    Re: Passenger tried to ignite shoe on United Airlines flight

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Are you seriously asking or are you shut down in denial as well?
    It's my experience that when people kick off a post like this, it usually indicates someone with an axe to grind or whose mind is made up already.

    The vast majority of Muslims are not radicals. And the vast majority of radicals are not terrorists.
    Good, with you so far.

    But our enemies are radicals and extremists and they are entirely all Muslim.
    Oooh so close. There are a lot of pissed off people all over the world and a lot of them are pissed at us. I daresay the Chinese dont care for us much more than most Muslim extremists and there are A LOT more of them with A LOT better arms.

    There is a difference between an extremist, a radical, and an every day Muslim. Extremists exist within the sea of radicalism and radical Muslims number in the tens of thousands across the region. With numbers like this, there is no end of youth learning to hate foriegn devils and to celebrate scapegoating to further their hate. (Is it so hard to understand that two white racists from Alabama may breed a future clansman?)
    This raises two questions for me.

    One, why isnt any of this rhetoric aimed at places like China where the same sort of mentality is cultivated and where there is an actual army, nuclear arms, political and economic influence, and a MUCH bigger population? If all the Muslim extremists in the world united into one single group and attacked the US, we'd be dealing with, to be generous, maybe half a million people, MAYBE. China's army has TWICE OUR POPULATION available for active service.

    Two, where was all this on 9/10? You cant say we were never attacked by Muslim extremists before because we were on a number of occasions yet this kind of rhetoric never sprung up until now, why is that?

    Was all of Germany our enemy in WWII or just the Nazis? Certainly not all Germans were Nazis, but certainly many of them celebrated Nazi behaviors or apathetic. Our enemy wore more than just a German uniform didn't it? Would you rush to defend Germans in 1943? Why then do you and others rush to defend what you do not understand inside the Middle Eastern Arab Sunni (not Shia) culture? You assume and this is your first mistake.
    I think we need to first make the distinction between and organized, efficient, and well armed world-power and groups that have to acquire arms on the black market.

    I'm well aware of the differences between Sunni and Shia, I can even speak a little Arabic. Middle Eastern geopolitics is a special area of focus of mine for my studies for a degree in political science. I'm well aware of the current situation.

    Why are there so many that are terrorists
    There actually aren't. Even if there were a million armed and committed terrorists, that would only be 1% of the Muslim population of the world which is a damp squirt of a minority.

    and why are they all Sunni or associated to the Sunni tribe?
    Because 90-95% of the world's population of Muslims are Sunni.

    Why are there so many so willing to slaughter even other Muslims and hasten to throw theiir own lives away?
    Strength of faith can overcome any societal or mental barrier, this is not unique to Islam by ANY stretch of the imagination.

    Indoctrination by over-zealous clerics and a culture of fear combined with desperate economic circumstances, constant war, a bleak future, and constant political infighting helps too.

    Why has even Al-Queda targetted far more Muslims than Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan?
    I dont know that this is the case.

    Why is there so little voice of opposition against Islamic radicals and extremists in the "vastly majority of quiet and unobtrusive" Muslim Middle East? These are the things I study.
    Study harder. The atmosphere of the Middle East is not conducive to free speech or open expression. Especially in the tribal areas where family ties are a matter of life and death.

    Furthermore, most people in the area frankly dont CARE; it's not their problem. They're busy dodging bombs and trying to feed their families. Geopolitics takes a backseat when the table is empty. Frankly I think it's a little arrogant to expect people living in survival mode to drop what they're doing and massage your ideological ego.

    I'm afraid pointing out the shop keeper at the corner doesn't cut it with this civilization. I know a fellow Marine who is a Muslim. Guess what enemy we share? We hardly hasten to ignore the disease behind the symptoms because it may be "racist" to talk ill of Muslims and their beloved superstitions in the ME. Such politically correct nonesense throughout the 90s ushered in 9/11 because our White House refused to "bash on a religion" when refusing intel reports from the Pentagon and CIA.
    Actually those reports werent acted on because it was assumed that nothing would come out of it. And it's easy in hindsight to criticize for the information not being acted on but consider that for every Osama, there are probably five others with a group of followers and some weapons dreaming of nuking LA who are politically and militarily insignificant.
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