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Remembering Katyn, 70 years later

F107HyperSabr

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BBC News - Remembering Katyn, 70 years later
Remembering Katyn, 70 years later

For 50 years, the Russians blamed the murder of more than 20,000 officers of the Polish army on Nazis and mythical Nazi "coloaborators.

Mikhail Gorbachev admitted "Soviet responsibility" but failed to aplogize. KGB SLUG Putin invited the Polish prime minister to attenda ceremony in Russia marking the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre of Poles but failed to apologize for Russian barbarism.

Some of you wonder whysome of us have no sympathy for Russians in the fight with the patriotic Chechens well read about Katyn and remember that Katyn is just a drop in the lake of muderous behavior and deeds committed by the Russian savages just in the last century.

Please read these few sentences and get the piture of some of us have known since age 7
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Stalin then gave the order to murder the prisoners. 

They were shot in the back of the head, their bodies dumped in mass graves in Katyn and at other sites. 

The names of 21,857 Polish citizens are listed among the victims on Soviet documents.
 
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BBC News - Remembering Katyn, 70 years later
Remembering Katyn, 70 years later

For 50 years, the Russians blamed the murder of more than 20,000 officers of the Polish army on Nazis and mythical Nazi "coloaborators.

Mikhail Gorbachev admitted "Soviet responsibility" but failed to aplogize. KGB SLUG Putin invited the Polish prime minister to attenda ceremony in Russia marking the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre of Poles but failed to apologize for Russian barbarism.

Some of you wonder whysome of us have no sympathy for Russians in the fight with the patriotic Chechens well read about Katyn and remember that Katyn is just a drop in the lake of muderous behavior and deeds committed by the Russian savages just in the last century.
Methinks you should change your name to "107%HyperPartisan".

Although I agree that, as far as my historical knowledge of that incident goes, it was a horrific atrocity...blaming all of Russia and all Russians for it is unreasonable.
 
I think somewhere in Putins mind stalins attrocities are not attributed to him or the Russian Federation.

But rather to the past Soviet Union. and I'm gonna go ahead and assume you dont think all Russian people are barbarians. Cause they are not. But it is true historically the Russian and Soviet Security forces in particular have been incredibly brutal not only in this case but in Chechnya and other places.
 
Methinks you should change your name to "107%HyperPartisan".

Although I agree that, as far as my historical knowledge of that incident goes, it was a horrific atrocity...blaming all of Russia and all Russians for it is unreasonable.

Bringing out the truth for the world to see has nothing to do with "partisanship". Partisanship involves political parties and one's adherence to the propogation of partisan political positions and the defense of a political party.

Exactly which political party did I prop up ? None you say! Well I guess that I am not a partisan at all am I!!
 
I think somewhere in Putins mind stalins attrocities are not attributed to him or the Russian Federation.

But rather to the past Soviet Union. and I'm gonna go ahead and assume you dont think all Russian people are barbarians. Cause they are not. But it is true historically the Russian and Soviet Security forces in particular have been incredibly brutal not only in this case but in Chechnya and other places.

Well I see that you are an intelligent person and do see that I am not calling "all Russians" barbarians at all. Just as I am sure you nor I would call all Germans during the Nazi era "barbarians". The reason that I do at times use tough words when discussing the history and behavior of Russia, it's child - the USSR, and curently the Russian Federation is that few people know about he history of Russian/Soviet -Russian crimes against humanity.

You are also correct that Russian and Soviet 'Security ' forces "have been incredibly brutal not only in this case but in Chechnya and other places". I have to point out "events" such as Katyn because many people also do not know about "events" such as the Russian designed and contrived famine in Ukraine where they killed 8- 10 million people in the 1930's.

The sad truth is that just as there were enough Germans to go along with Nazi barbarism there were enough common Russians to fill the ranks of Russian and Soviet Security forces.
 
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Well I see that you are an intelligent person and do see that I am not calling "all Russians" barbarians at all. Just as I am sure you nor I would call all Germans during the Nazi era "barbarians". The reason that I do at times use tough words when discussing the history and behavior of Russia, it's child - the USSR, and curently the Russian Federation is that few people know about he history of Russian/Soviet -Russian crimes against humanity.

You are also correct that Russian and Soviet 'Security ' forces "have been incredibly brutal not only in this case but in Chechnya and other places". I have to point out "events" such as Katyn because many people also do not know about "events" such as the Russian designed and contrived famine in Ukraine where they killed 8- 10 million people in the 1030's.

The sad truth is that just as there were enough Germans to go along with Nazi barbarism there were enough common Russians to fill the ranks of Russian and Soviet Security forces.

This is all very true. When one adds not only the Soviet Unions Foreign crimes against humanity but their domestic ones, in such as the Famine in Ukraine or the Forced Relocations of Minorities and the great purges under Stalin, not even considering the incredible crimes commited in the Soviet Satellite states after world war two.

I think there is a denial of the past so as to seperate the Russian Federation from the Soviet Union. And besides it's not as if Russia has ever claimed to be the bastion of Human Rights.

It's a sad ass fact. But I guess it is fact.
 
Love this line "it's not as if Russia has ever claimed to be the bastion of Human Rights. "

Sadly that can be said for too many countries but when that is the case for a country the size of the current Russian Federation or china or Indonesia or the many other Muslim states we need to worry for humanity.
 
Bringing out the truth for the world to see has nothing to do with "partisanship". Partisanship involves political parties and one's adherence to the propogation of partisan political positions and the defense of a political party.

Exactly which political party did I prop up ? None you say! Well I guess that I am not a partisan at all am I!!

Not limited to political parties.

Partisan - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1 : a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance
 
Not limited to political parties.

Partisan - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1 : a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance

Well since my point of view is based upon open minded views, non prejudicial, and very reasonable since my views are rooted deeply and soundly in facts and history I am not parisan in the least bit.

Futhermore most of us free thinking people march to our own drummer and we do that very well.
 
Why in hell would any sane person expect Gorbachev to apologize for something he had nothing what ever to do with.

I am always curious why idiots expect people to apologize for things they had nothing to do with.

It's a meaningless idiotic gesture like apologizing for slavery today. Am I sorry it happened? Sure but I didn't have one damn thing to do with it. Neither did any of my poor ancestors and I can't apologize for what they did anyway.

It's been pretty much been an open secret that this massacre was carried out but the Russians from the start I believe.

Stalin managed to kill over 20 million of his own people and this was merely a blip on the radar of time.

It serves no real purpose other than setting the history books straight and maybe make one or two very old people feel better for a few minutes, but it changes nothing.
 
Why in hell would any sane person expect Gorbachev to apologize for something he had nothing what ever to do with.

I am always curious why idiots expect people to apologize for things they had nothing to do with.

It's a meaningless idiotic gesture like apologizing for slavery today. Am I sorry it happened? Sure but I didn't have one damn thing to do with it. Neither did any of my poor ancestors and I can't apologize for what they did anyway.

It's been pretty much been an open secret that this massacre was carried out but the Russians from the start I believe.

Stalin managed to kill over 20 million of his own people and this was merely a blip on the radar of time.

It serves no real purpose other than setting the history books straight and maybe make one or two very old people feel better for a few minutes, but it changes nothing.

Are you going to or have you told the Jewish people that the Germans should not have appologized for the Holocasut. And hold on also since the German who were not adults during WW II had nothing to do with killing Jews why should they pat reapartions ?? Are you ready to or have you already to tell the Jews that when iot comes to the Holocaust - "FORGET A BOUT IT " -t's just history - who cares !! What is a few million dead Jews among friends anyways.
 
Are you going to or have you told the Jewish people that the Germans should not have apologized for the Holocaust. And hold on also since the German who were not adults during WW II had nothing to do with killing Jews why should they pat reparations ?? Are you ready to or have you already to tell the Jews that when it comes to the Holocaust - "FORGET A BOUT IT " -it’s just history - who cares !! What is a few million dead Jews among friends anyways.
Punishing the individuals among the German population who performed the heinous acts is reasonable.
Perhaps reparations by the German people of the time, for allowing such a regime to keep power, are somewhat reasonable.

Anything of the sort now would be unreasonable.

See, there's this thing called time.
 
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Punishing the individules among the German population who performed the henious acts is reasonable.
Perhaps repartions by the German people of the time, for allowing such a regime to keep power, are somewhat reasonable.

Anything of the sort now would be unreasonable.

See, there's this thing called time.

There is also a thing called learning from history and not repeating the wrongs. To be honest I was reacting to what I pecieved that many people want us to just forget what happened and that it did not matter.

As far as repariions and time I do have aprobelm with that. The Germans did need to pay repartaions but as for how long I thing that it has been going on too long. Was it practical to have just those Gremans who were adults during the Nazi period pay I do not believe so.

The other factor is if the Gremans were forced to pay reparations to the Jews and a minor amount of non Jews why were not the Russians made to pay repartions for the non Russian peoples that they murdered!!

Isn't there a loss of fairness here ? Are only Jewish lives worth something and no one elses ?

What do you think ?
 
There is also a thing called learning from history and not repeating the wrongs. To be honest I was reacting to what I pecieved that many people want us to just forget what happened and that it did not matter.

As far as repariions and time I do have aprobelm with that. The Germans did need to pay repartaions but as for how long I thing that it has been going on too long. Was it practical to have just those Gremans who were adults during the Nazi period pay I do not believe so.

The other factor is if the Gremans were forced to pay reparations to the Jews and a minor amount of non Jews why were not the Russians made to pay repartions for the non Russian peoples that they murdered!!

Isn't there a loss of fairness here ? Are only Jewish lives worth something and no one elses ?

What do you think ?
And how the hell do you think anyone could have MADE russia pay anyone anything if they didn't want to, at that time?
 
And how the hell do you think anyone could have MADE russia pay anyone anything if they didn't want to, at that time?

It's not just the making those schucknyki pay the fact is that all the Western govenments turned their backs on all of the peoples who Russians murdered and didn't even acknowledge that the Russians had committed act of barabarism. I understand that the Western Allies decided that they needed the Reds/Russians to defeat Germany during WW II but for God's sake they sent displaced peoples back into Soviet hand via OPERATION Keelhaul after WW II. My own parents were almost sent back into the Soviet hands and would have maybe grown up in Siberia if I was not executed by a Russian NKVD slug AT AGE 2 . We did not need to keep cooperating with dirtbags after WW II.
 
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The ugliest part of World War II from the Allies was how FDR and Churchill made so many promises to the Poles, only to look the other way as Russian soldiers raped and pillaged their way through that region as their supposed "liberators", then took half their land after the war.
 
The ugliest part of World War II from the Allies was how FDR and Churchill made so many promises to the Poles, only to look the other way as Russian soldiers raped and pillaged their way through that region as their supposed "liberators", then took half their land after the war.

It wasn't just the Poles it was vitually every Eastern European country that the Russians raped and pillaged. Do you know that Russian troops shot and killed German farmers because the Russians thought that the Greman farmers were stealing the potatoes that the ignorant Russians were "washing" in the toilet. True story : Russian troops stole potatoes from German farmers and tried to "wash" the potatoes in toilets and when the potatoes flushed away the Russians shot the Greman farmers for "stealing the potatoes that the Russians stole in the first place. Some day I will post the story of how the Russian troops stole wrist watches from the Hungarians since the Russians did not have wrist watches. Another trrue story about our "allies".
 
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Methinks you should change your name to "107%HyperPartisan".

Although I agree that, as far as my historical knowledge of that incident goes, it was a horrific atrocity...blaming all of Russia and all Russians for it is unreasonable.

Russian guns wielded by Russian Secret Police using Russian ammunition.

Ordered by STALIN who was President of RUSSIA at that time.

Seems pretty obvious it was a RUSSIAN act.
 
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