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Thread: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

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    U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric - NYTimes.com

    WASHINGTON The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday.

    Mr. Awlaki, who was born in New Mexico and spent years in the United States as an imam, is in hiding in Yemen. He has been the focus of intense scrutiny since he was linked to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Tex., in November, and then to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man charged with trying to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Dec. 25.

    Some of you might be of a mind to cheer, but before you do, consider this:

    By what authority does President Obamacommand the US military?

    That granted by the Constitution.

    How is it not a violation of the 5th Amendment to hunt down and execute an American citizen without a trial?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Some of you might be of a mind to cheer, but before you do, consider this:

    By what authority does President Obamacommand the US military?

    That granted by the Constitution.

    How is it not a violation of the 5th Amendment to hunt down and execute an American citizen without a trial?
    Has he lost his citizenship b/c of terrorist activity?

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    When you take up arms against your country, you lose all citizen's rights.

    It's the Donovan McNabb rule.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Has he lost his citizenship b/c of terrorist activity?
    Not that I'm aware of.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    When you take up arms against your country, you lose all citizen's rights.

    It's the Donovan McNabb rule.
    Um, no, you don't, not unless you brandish a deadly weapon within lethal distance of a citizen, soldier or peace officer.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Has he lost his citizenship b/c of terrorist activity?
    Do we allow the government to define when we are no longer citizens then?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Well here's the catch 22 of this whole terrorism thing regarding its place as either a matter of civil law enforcement or if its a military issue, or if its some of both.
    If its a civil law enforcement issue, it would be illegal to tell police officers to go in with the explicit purpose to kill a person, regardless of how they acted when confronted.
    However the "mission" to kill a person without trail can be accomplished by the military without being illegal, which is why no one bats an eye when people are killed by military personnel in conflicts without trail or any other reasons besides "he's wearing the wrong uniform."

    So is this kind of terrorism, crime or an issue of national defense?

    Personally, I rather issue an arrest warrant because I'm assuming that the case is strong enough because he has been declared guilty without trail. For example Saddam and Bin Laden were declared guilty without a trail, and if a military person kills Bin Laden its part of a war and thus no trail is necessary. I do think this cleric would fall under the "war" category, even being a US citizen. However I would still go with an arrest warrant because if can be caught then a trail is all for the better, he isn't a martyr and we can put him on display for everyone to see what we are fighting. If he cannot be captured without killing him, police should have enough firepower to accomplish that if he makes a last stand.
    Lastly, police have much more experience operating in the US like this, and many times these cases are resolved through police work, something which the police are better at than the military, especially domestically. AND using police will not be controversial like using the military would be.

    So the end result is the same either way, he's either killed by police or military, or captured and tried by the police or military. Either way the job will get done and the sentence will be undoubtedly be the same, but using police is less controversial and they are better equipped for the job.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Do we allow the government to define when we are no longer citizens then?
    Why not? We should be able to strip citizenship based on one's personal actions.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Why not? We should be able to strip citizenship based on one's personal actions.
    Because then there is little point to the designation of "citizen". Basically you're arguing that whenever it is convenient to the government, the government should not be bound by the rules, regulations, and constraints of the Constitution. I'm saying that's a dangerous mindset.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Because then there is little point to the designation of "citizen". Basically you're arguing that whenever it is convenient to the government, the government should not be bound by the rules, regulations, and constraints of the Constitution. I'm saying that's a dangerous mindset.
    I'm not saying the GOVT should be able to arbitrarily strip citizenship for any reason. But a terrorist who has plotted against the US can hardly expect sympathy.

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