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Thread: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Who would you feel stands a better chance in an American court an American citizen who speaks perfect English, and radicalized by a foreign religious ideology or a middle-eastern picked up in a hovel who speaks enough English to spew hatred in any tongue?


    Think about it.
    Does not matter. Why are citizens targeted for assassination while foreign terrorist get constitutional rights?

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    You asked: How is it not a violation of the 5th Amendment to hunt down and execute an American citizen without a trial?

    Your question presupposes that unlawful combatants (as defined by the Geneva Conventions) are entitled to a trial, which they are not. Article Six of the Constitution incorporates treaties made under the authority of the US government and gives them the full force of law; in this case, the Geneva Conventions, and not the Fifth Amendment, would be the relevant legal text in determining the status of the Cleric.
    Yet terrorist in Gitmo get trials

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Yet terrorist in Gitmo get trials
    And so will this terrorist if he isn't killed in the process of detaining him. Obama just made clear that it's fine if we have to kill him.
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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Here's how I see it...

    He's an American citizen, just like the Hutaree militia weirdos, BUT he left the country with the intention of taking part in an active terror campaign against the United States. I believe the distinction between domestic terrorism (Hutaree) and foreign terrorism as part of a broad military campaign against the US is an important one.

    For instance, suppose an American citizen left the country and became part of a foreign military which was actively engaged in hostilities against the United States. Would it be a violation of the Fifth Amendment to drop a bomb on his formation? I don't think anyone would argue that it is, nor do I think we would suggest he is still an American citizen.

    This cleric is currently engaged in a military campaign against the United States, which means his status is appropriately determined by the Geneva Conventions. The relevant distinction is whether or not "warfare" is taking place.
    Last edited by Gander; 04-07-10 at 08:47 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Welp, Obama was teetering when it comes to my re-election vote. This seals it.

    I certainly wont vote GOP or Tea Party soo.... I'm gonna go start my own party! With blackjack! And hookers!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Welp, Obama was teetering when it comes to my re-election vote. This seals it.

    I certainly wont vote GOP or Tea Party soo.... I'm gonna go start my own party! With blackjack! And hookers!
    Count me in man! I'll start the Canadian chapter.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Some of you might be of a mind to cheer, but before you do, consider this:

    By what authority does President Obamacommand the US military?

    That granted by the Constitution.

    How is it not a violation of the 5th Amendment to hunt down and execute an American citizen without a trial?
    A citizen's right to a trial is contingent either on his cooperating or his being captured. If he doesn't cooperate, it is the prerogative of the executive branch whether to capture or kill him.

    Does not matter. Why are citizens targeted for assassination while foreign terrorist get constitutional rights?
    Lots of reasons. For example, most those foreign terrorists are easier to capture.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 04-07-10 at 09:58 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Do we allow the government to define when we are no longer citizens then?
    I do not have the exact laws or regulation at hand but there are laws/rules which govern the loss of citizenship. I would take the practical approach in this case and render the so called "cleric" horizontal first and then sort out the constitutionality of the loss of citizenship of his "royal terroristship".
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Does not matter. Why are citizens targeted for assassination while foreign terrorist get constitutional rights?

    I would be for reading him his rights if he surrendered, but the fact is that he is a dangerous cleric who is hiding in a mountainous region and is surrounded by people who like to shoot Americans. Since when is it illegal to kill a hostile citizen if he is a threat to others?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I would be for reading him his rights if he surrendered, but the fact is that he is a dangerous cleric who is hiding in a mountainous region and is surrounded by people who like to shoot Americans. Since when is it illegal to kill a hostile citizen if he is a threat to others?
    It is not "illegal to kill a hostile citizen if he is a threat to others?"
    in fact I think it is a duty.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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