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Thread: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Because then there is little point to the designation of "citizen". Basically you're arguing that whenever it is convenient to the government, the government should not be bound by the rules, regulations, and constraints of the Constitution. I'm saying that's a dangerous mindset.
    Welcome to the PATRIOT Act.
    Told you it was a bad idea.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    I'm not saying the GOVT should be able to arbitrarily strip citizenship for any reason. But a terrorist who has plotted against the US can hardly expect sympathy.
    He doesn't have my sympathy.

    He does have the same rights and protections as I do until they are stripped from him via due process in a court of law.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Some of you might be of a mind to cheer, but before you do, consider this:

    By what authority does President Obamacommand the US military?

    That granted by the Constitution.

    How is it not a violation of the 5th Amendment to hunt down and execute an American citizen without a trial?
    Unfortunately, where national security and terrorism are involved ... those lines blur.

    If the scumbag in question is participating in attacks on the USS, he is a terrorist and he is subject to the treatment a terrorist receives.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Some of you might be of a mind to cheer, but before you do, consider this:

    By what authority does President Obamacommand the US military?

    That granted by the Constitution.

    How is it not a violation of the 5th Amendment to hunt down and execute an American citizen without a trial?
    I have mixed feelings about this. I do not think the government should be snatching US citizens off the street and assassinating them or sticking them in US secret prisons. On the other hand if that citizen left the country to go join up with some terrorist group then that is a different story like John Walker Lindh. Some one who has done something like that should not ever be considered a citizen because that individual has switched his allegiance and is no longer on American soil, he should be treated like any other terrorist.If that individual has not left the US then he should be afforded all the same rights as any other American.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 04-07-10 at 01:14 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Unfortunately, where national security and terrorism are involved ... those lines blur.

    If the scumbag in question is participating in attacks on the USS, he is a terrorist and he is subject to the treatment a terrorist receives.
    Um, no.

    If he's not on deadly ground (i.e. pointing a lethal weapon at someone) and he is accused of participating in attacks on the US, he is entitled to a trial wherein his accusers may attempt to prove his guilt.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Two words enemy combatant. He stripped himself away of the rights to America by saying innocent Americans are fair game. The constitution allowed for Jesse James to be brought in dead or alive and he never left America. Its is a question of rights provided to American citizens but this guy hates everything America stands for and he clearly acts as well as let the world know his intent. Which is to destroy democracy and civilians with the aid of foriegn terrorist. Therefore he himself has picked which side of the battle he will fight and kill for so he can be killed as an enemy combatant because he had choice through American freedom and choose to be an enemy of no restraint to you and I.
    Last edited by thoughtprocess; 04-07-10 at 02:23 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I have mixed feelings about this. I do not think the government should be snatching US citizens off the street and assassinating them or sticking them in US secret prisons. On the other hand if that citizen left the country to go join up with some terrorist group then that is a different story like John Walker Lindh. Some one who has done something like that should not ever be considered a citizen because that individual has switched his allegiance and is no longer on American soil, he should be treated like any other terrorist.If that individual has not left the US then he should be afforded all the same rights as any other American.
    If the President derives his authority to hunt down this cleric from the Constitution, then as a citizen of the United States this cleric enjoys the protections afforded any citizen by the Constitution.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtprocess View Post
    Two words enemy combatant.
    That is such a load of crap. You could maybe, maybe make the argument that someone firing a gun at American troops on foreign soil qualifies, you could maybe make the argument that non-citizens on the field of battle qualify, but never a citizen of the United States who is not actively engaging our troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtprocess View Post
    He stripped himself away of the rights to America by saying innocent Americans are fair game.
    Innocent Americans are fair game.

    There, does that make me an enemy combatant too?

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtprocess View Post
    The constitution allowed for Jesse James to be brought in dead or alive and he never left America.
    That's arguable.

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtprocess View Post
    Its is a question of rights provided to American citizens but this guy hates everything America stands for and he clearly acts as well as let the world know his intent.
    That's exactly why we have to afford this guy the protections he so disdains -- because if we can strip him of his rights without due process, we can strip anyone of their rights without due process.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Wait a minute... I thought the big report that came out mentioned nothing of Muslim extremists? Wasn't Hasan just some pissed off American?
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    This cleric was alleged to have counseled Hasan to do what he ultimately did.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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