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Thread: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

  1. #101
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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Some of you might be of a mind to cheer, but before you do, consider this:

    By what authority does President Obamacommand the US military?

    That granted by the Constitution.

    How is it not a violation of the 5th Amendment to hunt down and execute an American citizen without a trial?
    The U.S. military, like any other military force, can target combatants. So long as the cleric remains a combatant, he is a legitimate military objective. His U.S. citizenship does not change that reality. Hence, it is unlikely that the President's decision will be overturned.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    A citizen's right to a trial is contingent either on his cooperating or his being captured. If he doesn't cooperate, it is the prerogative of the executive branch whether to capture or kill him.
    No, it is the prerogative of the executive branch to attempt to capture him. Should he resist with lethal force, it then becomes the prerogative of the arresting officers to defend themselves as they deem fit.

    After all, if I as a citizen of the United States were to commit or plan to commit a felony -- any felony -- and then make a run for a country with no extradition treaty, how could it possibly be the prerogative of the President to send a death squad after me?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    It is not "illegal to kill a hostile citizen if he is a threat to others?"
    in fact I think it is a duty.
    I don't know about any other state, but in New York state he'd have to be an imminent lethal threat.

    In other words, you could kill a man waving a gun around at people, but you can't kill a man who plans to kill people or who lends aid to others who do.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, it is the prerogative of the executive branch to attempt to capture him. Should he resist with lethal force, it then becomes the prerogative of the arresting officers to defend themselves as they deem fit.

    After all, if I as a citizen of the United States were to commit or plan to commit a felony -- any felony -- and then make a run for a country with no extradition treaty, how could it possibly be the prerogative of the President to send a death squad after me?
    If this were a criminal matter, that line of argument would be right. However, when one is a combatant under the Laws of War, the situation is not an ordinary criminal matter. Under such circumstances, the individual is a legitimate military objective and can, like all other combatants, be targeted.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Nobody is saying anything about executions in lieu of trials.
    Actually thats pretty much precisely what they said about Special K and the New York trial...sure...we'll put him on trial...and then we'll kill him!

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The U.S. military, like any other military force, can target combatants. So long as the cleric remains a combatant, he is a legitimate military objective. His U.S. citizenship does not change that reality. Hence, it is unlikely that the President's decision will be overturned.
    His citizenship means he has Constitutional rights which cannot be denied without due process.

    It doesn't say "unless he's a really scary angry guy who wants to kill us."
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    If this were a criminal matter, that line of argument would be right.
    It is a criminal matter. His alleged actions are addressed in the code of federal law as criminal matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    However, when one is a combatant under the Laws of War
    The Constitution supersedes the Law of War.



    I still can't get over how many times certain people said we weren't bound by the Law of War with respect to GITMO detainees . . . and suddenly now we are.

    Ironic.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    His citizenship means he has Constitutional rights which cannot be denied without due process.

    It doesn't say "unless he's a really scary angry guy who wants to kill us."
    The due process argument is not relevant with respect to persons who are combatants. If the individual is captured, that's an entirely different matter. Then, he could no longer be targeted. However, he could be tried by a military commission.

    If one were to have applied such an unwieldy interpretation of the Fifth Amendment, then the Union Troops would have had no constitutional authority to use deadly force in the Civil War against Confederate troops (U.S. citizens under the law, as such force deprived them of due process). There are no legal precedents whereby the Fifth Amendment could be applied to bar the use of deadly force during disorder that threatened lives, much less negate the military's ability to target combatants.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 04-08-10 at 12:38 AM.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It is a criminal matter. His alleged actions are addressed in the code of federal law as criminal matters.
    It isn't. So long as the cleric is serving a command and control function within Al Qaeda he is properly a combatant and a legitimate military objective.

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    Re: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I still can't get over how many times certain people said we weren't bound by the Law of War with respect to GITMO detainees . . . and suddenly now we are.
    The U.S. has always been bound by the Laws of War. Such instruments preclude torture, among other things. Targeting a legitimate military objective is wholly consistent with proper application of the Laws of War.

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