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Thread: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

  1. #111
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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    From the article you linked: "There are plenty of culprits, like lenders who peddled easy credit, consumers who took on mortgages they could not afford and Wall Street chieftains who loaded up on mortgage-backed securities without regard to the risk. But the story of how we got here is partly one of Mr. Bushís own making, according to a review of his tenure that included interviews with dozens of current and former administration officials."

    This is much more complex than just housing policies and cheap credit, though they were clearly contributing factors.
    Right. But without all the cheap easy money the bubble could have never happened. They created the bubble. It did not create itself.

    The consumer gets blamed a lot, but if a banker showed you that you could buy a house for what you are paying for rent and the value of that house is growing every year who could resist? The average buyer did not know it was a bubble. They were convinced it was the smart thing to do. A way to save for the future. Also who would have thought that millions of people would lose their jobs. The number one reason for foreclosures is loss of job, not buying a home they couldn't afford. Most could afford the home until they lost their job.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Give me a break. That is not what caused the housing bubble or it's collapse.
    You guys should do some research instead of relying on biased talking points.

    Record low interest rates led to the housing bubble. It could have never happened with out them.
    Bush and Greenspan used the housing sector to get us out of the 2001 recession. Interest rates should have been raised and money tightened in 2003. There was too much money to be lent. They had to manufacture demand to find places to put all that money.

    "Thereís a must-read study by staff members of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York analyzing the roots of the subprime crisis that came out in March. I donít think it got much attention then as the conclusions seemed uncontroversial at the time. But now that Washington politicians are trying to rewrite history, it should be mandatory reading for every American interested in knowing how we got here.

    The study identifies five causes of the subprime meltdown:
    -Convoluted loan products that consumers didnít understand.
    -Credit ratings that didnít do a good job highlighting the risks contained in subprime-backed securities.
    -Lack of incentives for institutional investors to do their own research (they just relied on the credit ratings).
    -Predatory lending and borrowing (which I think means fraud perpetrated by borrowers).
    -Significant errors in the models used by credit rating agencies to assess subprime-backed securitie

    "The Great Housing Bubble was caused by an expansion of credit that enabled irrational exuberance and wild speculation. The expansion of credit came in the form of relaxed loan underwriting terms including high debt-to-income ratios, lower FICO scores, high combined-loan-to-value lending including 100% financing, and loan terms permitting negative amortization."
    I don't dispute any of this, but this describes a systemic breakdown. Lack of adequate oversight and regulation combined with cheap credit and unsustainable risk-taking. If Fannie is a victim, then so is Bush's reputation by the same logic. It's not like Bush created the system or failed to attempt any controls.

    I'm not trying to be partisan here. The CRA is not solely to blame. Barney Frank isn't solely to blame. Even the shady accounting practices of Lehman or the practice of borrowing money to gamble on high-yield securities aren't solely to blame. Rather, all must share the blame, as all contributed to a systemic breakdown that could have been prevented with foresight. But, as we are all well aware, foresight can't be qualified until after the fact.

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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    In case I was too subtle, that was sarcasm aimed at the borrow and spend crowd (aka conservatives)....
    Still confused about the difference between Republicans and conservatives, I see.

  4. #114
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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I don't dispute any of this, but this describes a systemic breakdown. Lack of adequate oversight and regulation combined with cheap credit and unsustainable risk-taking. If Fannie is a victim, then so is Bush's reputation by the same logic. It's not like Bush created the system or failed to attempt any controls.

    I'm not trying to be partisan here. The CRA is not solely to blame. Barney Frank isn't solely to blame. Even the shady accounting practices of Lehman or the practice of borrowing money to gamble on high-yield securities aren't solely to blame. Rather, all must share the blame, as all contributed to a systemic breakdown that could have been prevented with foresight. But, as we are all well aware, foresight can't be qualified until after the fact.
    Low interest, easy credit and Bush's homeownership policies are to blame for the housing bubble. I work in the housing industry and we could see exactly what was happening, while it was happening. Everyone was trying to make a killing. We built twenty years worth of homes in five years. It could easily have been brought under control by raising interest and tightening the money supply. Times were too good so they let it run it's course. They didn't want to ruin a good thing.....all that skyrocketing GDP and all.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    Did Barack Obama change his name to Paul Volcker?

    Thanks for the intellectually dishonest fresh steaming pile.

    Do you have a clue what position Paul Volcker occupies on Obama's staff?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    You're kidding right?
    Forcing banks to make loans? No bank was ever forced to make a loan. Derivatives? Credit default swaps? Record low mortgage rates? FED easy money policy? Hear of them? Lack of regulation led to the financial meltdown.

    Greed and speculation in the financial sector fueled the housing bubble and it's eventual collapse.
    You really should learn the facts instead of relying on GOP spin. It's funny how you guys hear something and then keep repeating it as fact.


    I am curious-how old are you? have you ever run a business? you sound like a college kid who has not had much experience in the cold hard world known as reality



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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Do you have a clue what position Paul Volcker occupies on Obama's staff?
    Apparently, an economic advisor.

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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    ... If Fannie is a victim, then so is Bush's reputation by the same logic. It's not like Bush created the system or failed to attempt any controls.
    Not in the least. Bush's administration pro-actively pursued policies to disable financial regulation. For example, the man he appointed to head the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) invoked an obscure clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws. As a result, Bush used his executive power to invalidate all state laws on predatory lending. Talk about throwing gasoline on fire...

    Also, his man heading the SEC was widely criticized for not enforcing regulations and making oversight a matter of the "honor system". I suspect almost all appointments he made engaged in similar a similar disingenuous manner to disable rules they didn't like or to look the other way.

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I'm not trying to be partisan here. The CRA is not solely to blame. Barney Frank isn't solely to blame. Even the shady accounting practices of Lehman or the practice of borrowing money to gamble on high-yield securities aren't solely to blame. Rather, all must share the blame, as all contributed to a systemic breakdown that could have been prevented with foresight. But, as we are all well aware, foresight can't be qualified until after the fact.
    There is certainly distributed fault, but the CRA issue strikes me as irrelevant. The vast majority of toxic lending came from the shadow banking sector. Fannie and Freddie were often squeezed out of the markets CRA mandates wanted them to serve. Why? Because the private (non-mandated) lenders had already swooped in and gave all those low-income people loans and then shipped them on up to Wall Street to be packaged into securities. Basically the economic melt-down would have happened even if there were no CRA, Fannie, or Freddie. Greenspan even repeated the word "fraud" about three times yesterday in the hearings. This meltdown was all about fraud which arose out of the fact there was no oversight, no regulation. The market was not as self-regulating as they had hoped. Not in the least.
    Last edited by metreon; 04-09-10 at 11:27 PM.

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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am curious-how old are you? have you ever run a business? you sound like a college kid who has not had much experience in the cold hard world known as reality
    I was in the financial sector for ten years and in the housing industry for the last 25. I saw exactly what Bush and Greenspan were doing when they were doing it. That is the reason I pulled all my money out of equities right before the crash. Did you? Many people predicted the collapse of the housing sector. I was one of them.

    I am dead on in my interpretation of what happened. I was part of it. Were you? Or do you get all your information from blogs?
    Last edited by USA_1; 04-10-10 at 12:23 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by metreon View Post
    Apparently, an economic advisor.
    Not just an adviser, chairman of the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board

    This guy would never say this in public without Obama's permission
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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