Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 159

Thread: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

  1. #101
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:34 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,067

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The US and the world was in such a deep hole thanks to right wing policies put in place before FDR came to power that it took many years to just get back to the same state as before the crash.
    No, it wasn't.

    It was a "burp", which all economies must do on occasion. Then Hoover made it worse by skyrocketing interest rates, which is the last thing you should do.

    If he would have dropped rates and let the thing play out, it would have been similar to what we're experiencing now, minus the huge real estate problem that is hanging over us. But he didn't.

    FDR then entended the problem by running up the federal deficit and implementing anti-competition and pro labor policies.

    In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy, Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

    "President Roosevelt believed that excessive competition was responsible for the Depression by reducing prices and wages, and by extension reducing employment and demand for goods and services," said Cole, also a UCLA professor of economics. "So he came up with a recovery package that would be unimaginable today, allowing businesses in every industry to collude without the threat of antitrust prosecution and workers to demand salaries about 25 percent above where they ought to have been, given market forces. The economy was poised for a beautiful recovery, but that recovery was stalled by these misguided policies."

  2. #102
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    All this "we should raise it" and "we shouldn't raise it" is missing the point to me that bothers me about this.

    Almost everyone in the "We should raise it" crowd seems to act like this is obvious, that we knew this was going to be the case, that its not surprising. Fine. Then either Obama is a complete ****ing idiot OR is an absolute liar.

    If it was so obvious and unquestionable that we needed to raise taxes then he should've never gone about promising that no taxes would be raised for those that aren't "rich" in hopes of tapping populism and "appearing bipartisan". To do so either means he was too ****ing dumb to realize something so "obvious and unquestionable" or so disingenuous an slimey that he boldly and flatly lied to the face of the American people time and time again for nothing but political expediency. Change from Politics as Usual indeed.
    When you heard him speak, you knew he was full of crap.

    You can't promise to not raise taxes when most of the social programs are under funded and you have a large amount of debt.
    That's just craziness.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #103
    Guru
    GhostlyJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,706

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Some of the discussion becomes so partisan it seems people would be willing to say day is night to be able to blame their opponents.
    Agree with this. It doesn't take much study to realize that there's plenty of responsibility to go around. The financial collapse was a tag team of government and corporate failures -- part deregulation, part social engineering, part wishful thinking, part accounting cover-up, part straight-up gambling -- and a true bipartisan effort.

  4. #104
    Guru
    GhostlyJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,706

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were victims, not culprits - BusinessWeek

    Start with the most basic fact of all: virtually none of the $1.5 trillion of cratering subprime mortgages were backed by Fannie or Freddie. That’s right — most subprime mortgages did not meet Fannie or Freddie’s strict lending standards. All those no money down, no interest for a year, low teaser rate loans? All the loans made without checking a borrower’s income or employment history? All made in the private sector, without any support from Fannie and Freddie.

    Look at the numbers. While the credit bubble was peaking from 2003 to 2006, the amount of loans originated by Fannie and Freddie dropped from $2.7 trillion to $1 trillion. Meanwhile, in the private sector, the amount of subprime loans originated jumped to $600 billion from $335 billion and Alt-A loans hit $400 billion from $85 billion in 2003. Fannie and Freddie, which wouldn’t accept crazy floating rate loans, which required income verification and minimum down payments, were left out of the insanity.

    The number don't lie unless you like to spin.

    Low interest rates, greed and speculation and easy money from the FED led to the housing bubble.
    My understanding is Fannie relaxed its standards for issuing securities based on subprime loans because they were losing business amid aggressive lending during the housing bubble. Fannie over-leveraged itself just like the rest, lacked adequate cash reserves and needed a massive bailout. Fannie and Freddie are not blameless.

    There also was a legislative effort -- championed by Bush -- to force these banks to hold some liquidity and was killed by a bipartisan effort. I'm sure you recall Barney Franks' now infamous defense of Fannie. He, and many others across the political spectrum, didn't want to see the bubble and wanted to keep the credit flowing.

  5. #105
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    My understanding is Fannie relaxed its standards for issuing securities based on subprime loans because they were losing business amid aggressive lending during the housing bubble. Fannie over-leveraged itself just like the rest, lacked adequate cash reserves and needed a massive bailout. Fannie and Freddie are not blameless.

    There also was a legislative effort -- championed by Bush -- to force these banks to hold some liquidity and was killed by a bipartisan effort. I'm sure you recall Barney Franks' now infamous defense of Fannie. He, and many others across the political spectrum, didn't want to see the bubble and wanted to keep the credit flowing.
    Fannie and Freddie were victims of the housing bubble created by low interest rates, abundant money from the FED and Bush's policies to make this an ownership society. Bush and Greenspan did everything in their power to keep the bubble inflating even to the point of Bush eliminating down payments for home buyers. They were driving the train that went over the cliff. They brought everyone with them.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  6. #106
    Guru
    GhostlyJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,706

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Fannie and Freddie were victims of the housing bubble created by low interest rates, abundant money from the FED and Bush's policies to make this an ownership society. Bush and Greenspan did everything in their power to keep the bubble inflating even to the point of Bush eliminating down payments for home buyers. They were driving the train that went over the cliff. They brought everyone with them.
    Again, to my understanding this simply isn't the case. Bush really did push for a larger safety net for these institutions and was stymied by Congress. Not that that is the only factor or that Bush made no mistakes, but just saying "Bush and Greenspan did it" is as gross an oversimplification as saying "Barney Frank and Chris Dodd did it."

  7. #107
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    Again, to my understanding this simply isn't the case. Bush really did push for a larger safety net for these institutions and was stymied by Congress. Not that that is the only factor or that Bush made no mistakes, but just saying "Bush and Greenspan did it" is as gross an oversimplification as saying "Barney Frank and Chris Dodd did it."
    The mess at Freddie and Fanny are the result of the collapse of the housing bubble. Not the cause of it. Yes they did not have an adequate safety net but they did not cause the collapse in the housing sector.

    The housing bubble could not have happened without record low interest rates and the FED pumping money into the system. Abundant cheap money caused the housing bubble. Bush helped it grow with his home ownership policies. Yes. Greenspan and Bush created the housing bubble which they could have stopped at any time.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/21admin.html
    Last edited by USA_1; 04-09-10 at 04:18 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  8. #108
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:34 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,067

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Fannie and Freddie were victims of the housing bubble created by low interest rates, abundant money from the FED and Bush's policies to make this an ownership society. Bush and Greenspan did everything in their power to keep the bubble inflating even to the point of Bush eliminating down payments for home buyers. They were driving the train that went over the cliff. They brought everyone with them.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Bush pushed for Fannie to restrain itself, and Barnie Frank went berzerk, claiming it was "racist" not to give these loans to people. GhostlyJoe is exactly right.

  9. #109
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Bush pushed for Fannie to restrain itself, and Barnie Frank went berzerk, claiming it was "racist" not to give these loans to people. GhostlyJoe is exactly right.
    Give me a break. That is not what caused the housing bubble or it's collapse.
    You guys should do some research instead of relying on biased talking points.

    Record low interest rates led to the housing bubble. It could have never happened with out them.
    Bush and Greenspan used the housing sector to get us out of the 2001 recession. Interest rates should have been raised and money tightened in 2003. There was too much money to be lent. They had to manufacture demand to find places to put all that money.

    "There’s a must-read study by staff members of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York analyzing the roots of the subprime crisis that came out in March. I don’t think it got much attention then as the conclusions seemed uncontroversial at the time. But now that Washington politicians are trying to rewrite history, it should be mandatory reading for every American interested in knowing how we got here.

    The study identifies five causes of the subprime meltdown:
    -Convoluted loan products that consumers didn’t understand.
    -Credit ratings that didn’t do a good job highlighting the risks contained in subprime-backed securities.
    -Lack of incentives for institutional investors to do their own research (they just relied on the credit ratings).
    -Predatory lending and borrowing (which I think means fraud perpetrated by borrowers).
    -Significant errors in the models used by credit rating agencies to assess subprime-backed securitie

    "The Great Housing Bubble was caused by an expansion of credit that enabled irrational exuberance and wild speculation. The expansion of credit came in the form of relaxed loan underwriting terms including high debt-to-income ratios, lower FICO scores, high combined-loan-to-value lending including 100% financing, and loan terms permitting negative amortization."
    Last edited by USA_1; 04-09-10 at 04:27 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  10. #110
    Guru
    GhostlyJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    here
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,706

    Re: Volcker: Taxes likely to rise eventually to tame deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    The mess at Freddie and Fanny are the result of the collapse of the housing bubble. Not the cause of it. Yes they did not have an adequate safety net but they did not cause the collapse in the housing sector.

    The housing bubble could not have happened without record low interest rates and the FED pumping money into the system. Abundant cheap money caused the housing bubble. Bush helped it grow with his home ownership policies. Yes. Greenspan and Bush created the housing bubble which they could have stopped at any time.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/21admin.html
    From the article you linked: "There are plenty of culprits, like lenders who peddled easy credit, consumers who took on mortgages they could not afford and Wall Street chieftains who loaded up on mortgage-backed securities without regard to the risk. But the story of how we got here is partly one of Mr. Bush’s own making, according to a review of his tenure that included interviews with dozens of current and former administration officials."

    This is much more complex than just housing policies and cheap credit, though they were clearly contributing factors.

Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •