Pope's preacher compares abuse row to anti-Semitism

[jujuman13]

Link
BBC News - Pope's preacher compares abuse row to anti-Semitism

Quote from article
(Pope Benedict's personal preacher has compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews)

I think there is no possible comparison between a regime that murdered over 9 Million people and a Church that now seeks to blame the objectors who object to pedophilic acts committed on children throughout the world.

Quote from article
(Vatican spokesman the Rev Federico Lombardi later contacted the Associated Press news agency to say Father Cantalamessa was not speaking as a Vatican official.

He said such a comparison could "lead to misunderstandings and is not an official position of the Catholic Church".)


It was the vicar of Christs PERSONAL PREACHER who made that statement, one presumes he believed it. At the time he made this statement he did not state it was a personal remark.


Quote from article
(But Stephan Kramer, general-secretary of Germany's Central Council of Jews, described the remarks as offensive and repulsive.

"So far I haven't seen St Peter's burning, nor were there outbursts of violence against Catholic priests," he said.

"I'm without words. The Vatican is now trying to turn the perpetrators into victims.")

A German Archbishop calls for a 'New Start'
After 2000 years of this religion he wants a new start.

IMO this religion should be banned.
Pedophilic acts on children have a nasty habit of being perpetrated by those same children when they themselves reach maturity.
Not every child who is treated such, but certainly a significant number.
This Church should either be banned outright or at the very least change it's rules regarding having unmarried males as it's Priests.
It is unnatural for men to go through life without some outlet for their sexuality.

 

[Wiseone]

"This religion should be banned"

Well that ridiculous statement aside I agree this priest should have thought a little more before saying this.

 

[Morality Games]

Catholic dogma is good for making its adherents engage in self-criticism, but not its religious authorities. In the world of Catholic dogma, a divine "screening process" is held to be in place, so such severe moral lapses on the part of priests are not thought to be possible. Reconciling that ideal with the apparent realities of the situation and of human nature is difficult. Protestantism challenges the conventional Catholic belief that God's wisdom can be mediated through a human institution as opposed to revealed in every aspect of life. If Protestant spiritual authorities sin, provided the sin is not too severe, even that experience can enhance their understanding of and ability to preach the spiritual, or so the theology and popular Protestant thinking goes. I think that is a good thing. However, Catholicism has its own strengths.

 

[tryreading]

Link
BBC News - Pope's preacher compares abuse row to anti-Semitism

Quote from article
(Pope Benedict's personal preacher has compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews)

I think there is no possible comparison between a regime that murdered over 9 Million people and a Church that now seeks to blame the objectors who object to pedophilic acts committed on children throughout the world.

Quote from article
(Vatican spokesman the Rev Federico Lombardi later contacted the Associated Press news agency to say Father Cantalamessa was not speaking as a Vatican official.

He said such a comparison could "lead to misunderstandings and is not an official position of the Catholic Church".)


It was the vicar of Christs PERSONAL PREACHER who made that statement, one presumes he believed it. At the time he made this statement he did not state it was a personal remark.


Quote from article
(But Stephan Kramer, general-secretary of Germany's Central Council of Jews, described the remarks as offensive and repulsive.

"So far I haven't seen St Peter's burning, nor were there outbursts of violence against Catholic priests," he said.

"I'm without words. The Vatican is now trying to turn the perpetrators into victims.")

A German Archbishop calls for a 'New Start'
After 2000 years of this religion he wants a new start.

IMO this religion should be banned.
Pedophilic acts on children have a nasty habit of being perpetrated by those same children when they themselves reach maturity.
Not every child who is treated such, but certainly a significant number.
This Church should either be banned outright or at the very least change it's rules regarding having unmarried males as it's Priests.
It is unnatural for men to go through life without some outlet for their sexuality.

This guy is one laughable fool. And look at his position in the church.

The Pope himself was recently passing the buck, so this isn't so surprising, I guess.

 

[washunut]

This guy is one laughable fool. And look at his position in the church.

The Pope himself was recently passing the buck, so this isn't so surprising, I guess.

How do people of good will continue to contribute to an organization like this.

 

[Fiddytree]

IMO this religion should be banned.

Isn't that odd how that plays into the really bad argument said preacher tried to sell? Boy, his preacher has strong insights. At least he was able to pick out one yokel who says something without thought.

 

[washunut]

Isn't that odd how that plays into the really bad argument said preacher tried to sell? Boy, his preacher has strong insights. At least he was able to pick out one yokel who says something without thought.

Really not sure what you are trying to say here. Did that comment get close to calling for catholic holocaust? It has to be hard to try and defens what is indefenceable.

 

[jujuman13]

Quote(Across Europe, there is now a torrent of allegations against predatory priests and the abuse of children. In Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Ireland, Italy and the Netherlands people are emerging, with their often buried stories, and pointing their fingers at priests and bishops. One Catholic paper opined that this scandal was the "largest in centuries" to trouble the Church.)

Recognising this as a scandal and doing something about it such that it will never be repeated is apparently something else.

Quote(The questions facing the Vatican are these: Was its priority protecting vulnerable children or guarding the reputation of the Church? Were children systematically abused at Catholic schools and were paedophile priests shipped out to other parishes rather than being prosecuted?)

It is becoming patently obvious that it is the protection of the Church

Quote(There is the story from Ireland of a cardinal being present when two teenage boys were persuaded to sign oaths of silence. The priest who was accused of abusing them was never reported to the police and was free to abuse again.)

Undoubtedly in previous times this behavior went unreported as those who might have reported it ended up either in the hands of the Churches Inquisition or were simply burnt as witches or warlocks

Quote(It is impossible to know the scale of this, but across the world thousands of children may have been abused; their lives damaged, tormented by guilt and struggling to form stable, loving relationships.)

And for the reasons above I will continue to insist that this what I call 'Disgusting Church' reform itself from Top to Bottom. What few people seem to realize is that when a child is mistreated they carry the memory of that mistreatment with them throughout their lives.
When they grow up many of them Marry and have children of their own, the treatment they received as children is then in many instances visited upon their own children

I wondered at the almost desperate manner with which the Church Authorities sought to bury news of these Pedophilia acts from leaking out, I then realized that this corruption must extend right to the top of this Churches Authority

Quote(The scandal is now knocking at the Pope's door in Vatican City. Before he was pontiff, he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and was known as God's Rottweiler, the enforcer who instilled orthodoxy in the Church. He was also in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and was the chief investigator, in charge of the office monitoring priestly misconduct.)

Thus by inference he held responsibility for this Office.

Quote(Two cases have drawn the Pope directly into this crisis.

One involves the Rev Lawrence Murphy, a priest who worked at a school for deaf children in Milwaukee. Around 150 men with impaired hearing claim they were abused by the priest. Complaints against the Rev Murphy were made at a very senior level but why, it is asked, did the Pope, when he was cardinal, not take steps to ensure the man could not abuse again?)

Why indeed?

A second case concerns Peter Hullermann, a Bavarian priest who undertook therapy for paedophilia in Ratzinger's diocese; he was transferred to a new parish where, it is alleged, he continued to molest boys. The Pope says he had no knowledge of the decision to reassign him.

Whenever a Priest is transferred from one Parish to another within the same Diocese, the Cardinal responsible for that Diocese has to sign the Documents to permit the transfer, How could this Pope as a Cardinal fail to have no knowledge? What I fail to understand (unless it was so rife) that he would claim to not have any knowledge of a Pedophilia Priest in his Diocese


Quote(Vatican officials insist that as cardinal, Pope Benedict had "zero tolerance" towards priests who committed abuse and that he proposed a fast-track to de-frock them.)

Indeed as we have seen with regards to Father Murphy & Father Hullerman?

Quote(They insist that the number of recent allegations are falling and that reflects some of the reforms that the Pope himself introduced.)

By inference the above suggests that new cases are constantly coming to light.

Quote(The Church, however, seems totally unprepared for a global media bent on discovering what happened. They show no deference towards the institution. Lawyers in the United States talk of wanting to know "who knew what and when", echoing the pursuit of former President Richard Nixon. There is a search for documents covering the time when the Pope was a top Vatican official.)

This Church imagines that it and it's officials are immune from prosecution by the Law of whatever Country they commit Pedophilia in

Quote(So, as more is revealed, more questions follow. That is the nature of these stories. One paper suggests the Pope knew that Hullermann would be able to return to pastoral work. It seems his name was found on a memo. So reporters demand answers as if the Vatican was the White House and there was a duty to explain.)

This Pope does have a duty to explain to all his present parishioners

Quote(In the face of this the Vatican has been defensive. Its paper L'Osservatore Romano said the allegations were part of an "ignoble attempt to strike at Pope Benedict". A spokesman is quoted as saying the Pope has not been weakened by this.)

This is no longer directly about this Pope, it is much more to do with the continued existence as a widely recognized and previously respected Religion.

Finally if anything is published in L'Osservatore Romano, and especially on it's front page, that article is seen by the Faithful as having been authorized by the Vatican itself. Simply because such an article raises a furore after having been published is not an excuse to deny that it was an official Vatican endorsed article

 

[Fiddytree]

Really not sure what you are trying to say here. Did that comment get close to calling for catholic holocaust? It has to be hard to try and defens what is indefenceable.

An argument in favor of banning a religion is awfully similar to 20th century attempts at anti-semitism.

 

[washunut]

An argument in favor of banning a religion is awfully similar to 20th century attempts at anti-semitism.

I may have missed the comment. Someone said we should round up and kill all Catholics. I agree that would be a horrible statement.

 

[Orion]

Pope Benedict's personal preacher has compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews

Outrageous.

Just keep digging your grave even deeper.

 

[Councilman]

"This religion should be banned"

Well that ridiculous statement aside I agree this priest should have thought a little more before saying this.

I would agree with banning it if the Catholic Church was a CULT the preached hate and killing as a path to redemption like that of the CULT of Islam.

The Catholic Church for the most part seems to about doing good and it's programs for help others do a great deal good around the world, and should be encouraged to continue.

What the Church has failed to do is change with the times and recognize that celibacy is not the way God intended any man to live if they would just pay closer attention to the Book of Genesis and According to their own religion woman was created in the first place.

It has long been a problem within the Church that celibate Priests have been molesting children both boys and occasionally girls.

If you remember a few years back locally famous radio talk show on KGO in San Francisco Berny Ward was convicted on child porn charges and sent to prison.

During the investigation it was revealed that when Mr. Ward was a Priest he was accused of child molestation and eventually left the Priesthood and was Married. You might think that a normal person would have at that point changed his ways but it seems in almost every case involving child molesters they never stop only change locations or learn to better hide their activities.

It is puzzling that the Church is not out front trying to do away with scandal once and for all in the best interest of the Church.

On solution in this Country might be to remove the tax free status of every Diocese that does not report every case they know of even if it comes in confession and fire outright any Priest involved.

Many Churches have internal problems and some have weird and even freaky precepts like the main stream Mormons who teach that if a man cheats on his wife and they were married in the Temple they were meant by God to be together and the wife should take him back.

Give me a (expletive) break that's nut and it is only one example of that Churches subjugation of women. It's not widely know or talked about outside the Church, but it does exist.

In this Country we can freely practice our Religion but there has to be limits on what a descent society permits.

We can have a Church of the Everlasting Marijuana Brownie for example, where every service starts by eating a few as the service gets under way.

Although it might be a good idea if Congress were to partake. We might get better results but then many of then are alcoholics and that doesn't seem to help.

 

[washunut]

I would agree with banning it if the Catholic Church was a CULT the preached hate and killing as a path to redemption like that of the CULT of Islam.

The Catholic Church for the most part seems to about doing good and it's programs for help others do a great deal good around the world, and should be encouraged to continue.

What the Church has failed to do is change with the times and recognize that celibacy is not the way God intended any man to live if they would just pay closer attention to the Book of Genesis and According to their own religion woman was created in the first place.

It has long been a problem within the Church that celibate Priests have been molesting children both boys and occasionally girls.

If you remember a few years back locally famous radio talk show on KGO in San Francisco Berny Ward was convicted on child porn charges and sent to prison.

During the investigation it was revealed that when Mr. Ward was a Priest he was accused of child molestation and eventually left the Priesthood and was Married. You might think that a normal person would have at that point changed his ways but it seems in almost every case involving child molesters they never stop only change locations or learn to better hide their activities.

It is puzzling that the Church is not out front trying to do away with scandal once and for all in the best interest of the Church.

On solution in this Country might be to remove the tax free status of every Diocese that does not report every case they know of even if it comes in confession and fire outright any Priest involved.

Many Churches have internal problems and some have weird and even freaky precepts like the main stream Mormons who teach that if a man cheats on his wife and they were married in the Temple they were meant by God to be together and the wife should take him back.

Give me a (expletive) break that's nut and it is only one example of that Churches subjugation of women. It's not widely know or talked about outside the Church, but it does exist.

In this Country we can freely practice our Religion but there has to be limits on what a descent society permits.

We can have a Church of the Everlasting Marijuana Brownie for example, where every service starts by eating a few as the service gets under way.

Although it might be a good idea if Congress were to partake. We might get better results but then many of then are alcoholics and that doesn't seem to help.

Where are our other protectors of society the police and district attorneys. How is it that we have seen no RICO prosecutions that hold the bigwigs responsible and clamp down of these horrible practices.

Would a district attorney who went after these folks be thrown out of office by the people he is trying to protect. If so, what does that say about the flock.

 

[jujuman13]

Where are our other protectors of society the police and district attorneys. How is it that we have seen no RICO prosecutions that hold the bigwigs responsible and clamp down of these horrible practices.

Would a district attorney who went after these folks be thrown out of office by the people he is trying to protect. If so, what does that say about the flock.

Very likely as the senior officials of this Church likely have high power contacts.

 

[ludahai]

Catholic dogma is good for making its adherents engage in self-criticism, but not its religious authorities. In the world of Catholic dogma, a divine "screening process" is held to be in place, so such severe moral lapses on the part of priests are not thought to be possible. Reconciling that ideal with the apparent realities of the situation and of human nature is difficult. Protestantism challenges the conventional Catholic belief that God's wisdom can be mediated through a human institution as opposed to revealed in every aspect of life. If Protestant spiritual authorities sin, provided the sin is not too severe, even that experience can enhance their understanding of and ability to preach the spiritual, or so the theology and popular Protestant thinking goes. I think that is a good thing. However, Catholicism has its own strengths.

Do you really believe this? Priests and other men of the cloth are also required to go to the Confessional and I am sure they do it more often than the typical layperson. Priests are most certainly supposed to engage in self-criticism and GOOD priests, bishops, etc. do so on a regular basis. Heck, I know some who engage it during the weekly homily. Priests are most certainly capable of moral lapses. I have NEVER heard anyone in the Church say otherwise. We all fall short of the glory of God -- lay person or clergy.

 

[ludahai]

On solution in this Country might be to remove the tax free status of every Diocese that does not report every case they know of even if it comes in confession and fire outright any Priest involved.

This would be unacceptable for most Catholics. You know the Confessional is a religious obligation for Catholics and that a Confessor who was to reveal what was said in the Confessional would be subject to a Canon Law trial and could be defrocked for that offense. Most of what you said made sense, but this paragraph absolutely does not.

 

[jamesrage]

Link
BBC News - Pope's preacher compares abuse row to anti-Semitism

Quote from article
(Pope Benedict's personal preacher has compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews)

I think there is no possible comparison between a regime that murdered over 9 Million people and a Church that now seeks to blame the objectors who object to pedophilic acts committed on children throughout the world.

Quote from article
(Vatican spokesman the Rev Federico Lombardi later contacted the Associated Press news agency to say Father Cantalamessa was not speaking as a Vatican official.

He said such a comparison could "lead to misunderstandings and is not an official position of the Catholic Church".)


It was the vicar of Christs PERSONAL PREACHER who made that statement, one presumes he believed it. At the time he made this statement he did not state it was a personal remark.


Quote from article
(But Stephan Kramer, general-secretary of Germany's Central Council of Jews, described the remarks as offensive and repulsive.

"So far I haven't seen St Peter's burning, nor were there outbursts of violence against Catholic priests," he said.

"I'm without words. The Vatican is now trying to turn the perpetrators into victims.")

A German Archbishop calls for a 'New Start'
After 2000 years of this religion he wants a new start.

IMO this religion should be banned.
Pedophilic acts on children have a nasty habit of being perpetrated by those same children when they themselves reach maturity.
Not every child who is treated such, but certainly a significant number.
This Church should either be banned outright or at the very least change it's rules regarding having unmarried males as it's Priests.
It is unnatural for men to go through life without some outlet for their sexuality.

I think when a religious group puts its own self image above the welfare of their congregation by trying to hide bad apples in their bunch instead of letting the authorities handle them then they deserve all the grief,scorn, bad jokes about(like last weeks episode of Southpark) and other things. I realize that the vast majority of catholic priest do not go out and molest children since they actually belief in what they preach, but hiding the scum that hide among them is inexcusable.

 

[jujuman13]

jamesrage posted quote(I think when a religious group puts its own self image above the welfare of their congregation by trying to hide bad apples in their bunch instead of letting the authorities handle them then they deserve all the grief,scorn, bad jokes about(like last weeks episode of Southpark) and other things. I realize that the vast majority of catholic priest do not go out and molest children since they actually belief in what they preach, but hiding the scum that hide among them is inexcusable.)

The latest news that I have heard regarding responsibility for these child abuses and the inability of the Holy Roman Catholic Church to deal with them.
The Number 2 at the Vatican has decided to accept responsibility, not merely because he is the number 2 but also because he himself was directly involved in not punishing Priests involved in Pedophilia, up to now the head guy still seems to deny any responsibility even though a pedophilia Priest was moved to a different Parish within the Popes Diocese when he was a Cardinal.
I daresay this particular tale has some way to go before it can be laid to rest.
But IMHO any Church that allows perhaps even encourages it's Priests to behave thus has a whole lot of explaining to do.
In myself I believe that Pedophilia behavior run rife through this Church from top to bottom.

 

[danarhea]

Perhaps, if Jewish rabbis had a propensity to molest children, and leaders of the Jewish faith tended to cover up such molestations, then antisemitism would be appropriate. But such is not the case.

The fact is that the Pope is indeed fallible. He is a mortal man, the same as the rest of us..... Well not quite the same. I doubt if the rest of us would turn a blind eye to child molestation, and protect those who commit it. If Joe Average were to cover up child molestation, he would be spending a very long time in prison. The Pope should be held to the same standard. IMHO, he should be put on trial if there is enough evidence to bind him over.

To compare criticism of the Catholic Church for acceptance of child abuse to antisemitism is ludicrous.

 

[jujuman13]

Just located the latest news.

France24 - Vatican deputy led cover-up in US abuse case: report.

Could be that he is being persuaded to take the flack for the person who is by all accounts actually responsible.

Much like the Pope's personal preacher being permitted to get away with his plainly ridiculous accusations I very much doubt that this man will receive anything by way of punishment.
In Gods name have these guys no shame? If such had happened with Politicians they would have either resigned by now or been hounded out of office by popular protest.

 

[danarhea]

Just located the latest news.

France24 - Vatican deputy led cover-up in US abuse case: report.

Could be that he is being persuaded to take the flack for the person who is by all accounts actually responsible.

Much like the Pope's personal preacher being permitted to get away with his plainly ridiculous accusations I very much doubt that this man will receive anything by way of punishment.
In Gods name have these guys no shame? If such had happened with Politicians they would have either resigned by now or been hounded out of office by popular protest.

In the end, we will all have to answer to a higher authority, and that includes politicians and popes alike. Sucks to be them. :mrgreen:

 

[ludahai]

The fact is that the Pope is indeed fallible. He is a mortal man, the same as the rest of us..... Well not quite the same.

Of course he is fallible and not perfect. Who is arguing that he is?

 

[danarhea]

Of course he is fallible and not perfect. Who is arguing that he is?

The Catholic Church. Catholic Dogma maintains that the Pope is infallible.

 

[ludahai]

The Catholic Church. Catholic Dogma maintains that the Pope is infallible.

Then you are sadly misinformed over the dogma of the Catholic Church.

 

[danarhea]

Then you are sadly misinformed over the dogma of the Catholic Church.

Actually, it is you who is misinformed. But don't take my word for it. Read about the Catholic Church's infallibility from the Catholic Encyclopedia.