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Thread: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

  1. #291
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i missed the part where you displayed your legal expertise and posted why the general welfare clause is not a sound basis for healthcare reform (or medicare or social security or a host of other legislated public programs not specifically enumerated in the Constitution)
    i look forward to that profound legal explanation defending your position
    so it is your learned opinion that any law that congress decrees is for the general welfare is properly within congressional jurisdiction to act?

    Excellent

    Why then was the State Mandate imposition in the Brady Bill or Lopez struck down on Tenth Amendment principles when Congress clearly indicated both laws were "for the public welfare"



  2. #292
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    all law involves contract

    I am a civil and constitutional rights trial attorney as well as handling employment discrimination and labor issues.

    The "general welfare" and necessary and proper is not a specific delegation of power. If it were then congress could do anything it wanted and the tenth amendment would have no meaning because, by definition, congress will always "find" that its legislation is "necessary and proper" or "for the general welfare"

    However, in the last 15 years the tenth amendment--totally ignored by the FDR administration to the point that even conservative jurists accepted its shunning as precedent--has become a bit more prominent as the USSC struck down parts of the Brady Bill in Prinz and in Lopez threw out a law that penalized having a gun within a certain distance of a school as violations of the tenth amendment.
    as i stated above, these clauses have been used for justification for other programs/laws...why not health care? what exactly is the government doing different here?

  3. #293
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    as i stated above, these clauses have been used for justification for other programs/laws...why not health care? what exactly is the government doing different here?
    I agree, they have been used as a justification

    and it is dishonest and right now the best the left wing "scholars" can come up with is

    well the tenth amendment has been violated before so what is one more violation


    now here is the 100 dollar question

    can you honestly say the constitution delegated this power to the the federal government as opposed to saying that the FDR administration and those subsequent to it ignored what the constitution actually empowered congress to do


    and if so, why have some laws been recently struck down on tenth amendment grounds just as the early age of the New Deal (Schechter Poultry for example) much of that rape of the constitution was being stricken on tenth amendment grounds.



  4. #294
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    as i stated above, these clauses have been used for justification for other programs/laws...why not health care? what exactly is the government doing different here?
    But, has the USSC upheld that justification? That is the important issue. TurtleDude has referred to cases where the justification was rejected by the USSC. Do you have any cases where the justification was accepted by the USSC?

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    I believe the commerce clause might or might not give justification for the law. RightinNYC posted an excellent reference to a pro/con writeup on it.

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    But, has the USSC upheld that justification? That is the important issue. TurtleDude has referred to cases where the justification was rejected by the USSC. Do you have any cases where the justification was accepted by the USSC?
    i will have to do some research on it, but, if all the programs/laws that have been around for years and years, based on this justification, are 'illegal', why havent there been challenges on all of them?

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    His attitude disgusts me!
    My idea of health care reform is to be rid of fools like this!

  8. #298
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    His attitude disgusts me!
    My idea of health care reform is to be rid of fools like this!
    well your wish is going to come true because lots of doctors are going to retire or stop practicing medicine because of your messiah's idiotic new law.

    Then we will see who the real fools are.



  9. #299
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well your wish is going to come true because lots of doctors are going to retire or stop practicing medicine because of your messiah's idiotic new law.

    .
    Yeah, right. They're all going to work at Walmart.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by aps
    For you there's a difference. But even accepting that there's a difference, the varying levels of unprofessionalism still impact my trust in that person.
    A highly specialized field that has to go through seven to ten years of college and education beyond the high school level, undergo rigorous licensing procedures, and continue learning throughout a career - and you don't trust them because of an innocuous pseudo-political statement. I guess rationality passes you by.

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