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Thread: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

  1. #221
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The nature of masculinity does not change because of what other people do. More generally, failure to be morally excellent can never be excused because other people aren't being morally excellent, although it can be understood and sympathized with. But sympathy is the emotion of someone occupying a morally or materially superior position; we're supposed to feel sorry for the doctor because he was driven to an outburst and is inferior because of it, not celebrate inherently unmanly behavior as noble.
    So I can expect your condemnation of "the republicans did it" when the next bad policy is pushed through using less than ethical maneuvers and especially without the proper context?
    In addition, politicians have to behave in a non-masculine manner because the terms of their employment are defined by the expectations, desires, and fears of hundreds of millions of people as cultivated by a media superstructure dedicated to dramatizing every political event, even minor ones with a sensational appeal, as a contest between good and evil of cosmic significance.
    No excuses means no excuses. If protesters are being called less than manly for things that are screwing them then the POTUS has zero excuse to bitch when not getting his way. No excuses remember?
    Tantrums are politically common behavior no matter what side of the aisle you are; political movements are themselves the collective tantrums of millions of people. Politicians have to imitate tantrums to some extent to get to their duty. The doctor doesn't have that in his favor; he didn't "have to" throw a tantrum to do his duty.
    Nope, what's good for the politician is good for the constituent. So either we all "act like adults" or we don't.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 04-02-10 at 08:40 PM.
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The nature of masculinity does not change because of what other people do.
    You would have a point if the doctor's masculinity were a thing in question.

    More generally, failure to be morally excellent can never be excused because other people aren't being morally excellent, although it can be understood and sympathized with. But sympathy is the emotion of someone occupying a morally or materially superior position; we're supposed to feel sorry for the doctor because he was driven to an outburst and is inferior because of it, not celebrate inherently unmanly behavior as noble.
    Again, you would have a point if this were a question of the good doctor's morality or his manliness (where the **** did that whole line of illogic come from, anyway?) or if there were some sympathy for his expression of his right to free speech. I don't really think anyone has thought he needed sympathy for such a bold act.

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Uhh... that's not done on a typewriter.
    Uh...I was making a joke. Reference the story which said it WAS done on a typewriter...

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    I love the crippled dependent pets...the un and under-employed that criticize people that have invested 8-12 years of their life in pursuit of the profssional education ALONE. Damned evil, driven, successful capitalists. They should all be like the ****ing slugs that criticize them.

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    So I can expect your condemnation of "the republicans did it" when the next bad policy is pushed through using less than ethical maneuvers and especially without the proper context?
    First, I don't always live up to the ideal (ideals tend to work like that), but I never celebrate my or anybody else's inability to not live up to the ideal. If I fail, it isn't something I am proud of, though I will own it if forced to.

    Second, partisanship colors the debate over what a bad policy or what ethical politics are to the point actual badness or ethics is very hard to determine. I'm trying to stay in the realm of the obvious, where a strongly worded belief based on a significant amount of feeling fostered during a short period of time and suffering being undermined by its own originator is unmanly.

    Again, you would have a point if this were a question of the good doctor's morality or his manliness (where the **** did that whole line of illogic come from, anyway?) or if there were some sympathy for his expression of his right to free speech. I don't really think anyone has thought he needed sympathy for such a bold act.
    'Boldness' is a generous way of putting it. It would have been more bold if he hadn't hastened to ensure his action couldn't be construed as breaking state law by refusing service to supporters of health care reform. As it is, he undermined the force of his own message by claiming he wasn't taking it that far; he stood up for his ideals to the point of expressing an inflammatory emotional response, but not to the point of actually putting his job at risk. But even if he had put his job at risk, it would have been unmanly because he hasn't actually suffered materially under the reform. The unmanliness inherent to complaining can only be mitigated by suffering.

    A stoical person would not be capable of such an act (it would embarrass and demean him in his own eyes), and stoicism, a philosophy of self-reliance, determination, and dutifulness, is in practice a realization of manliness. Thus, his masculinity comes into question (not in a biological sense, but a moral one).

    Stoical people can make bold movements, but bold movements require personal risk and require a lot of build up. The doctor would have to endure a lot for years before an action like this could be considered a morally legitimate complaint rather than a tantrum. That's what we intuitively expect, since toddlers are sensitive to the point that every deviance from their specifications is a cause for them to voice a huge complaint; they don't need to suffer over a long period of time.

    No excuses means no excuses. If protesters are being called less than manly for things that are screwing them then the POTUS has zero excuse to bitch when not getting his way. No excuses remember?
    If moral behavior is contingent on the behavior of your enemies, then moral behavior is impossible. I'm not saying the actions of politicians are praiseworthy. I don't think that even of politicians whose policies and behaviors I like; politics is distasteful to me. But they act so out of a necessity which emerges from a superstructure none of them can control. Individual citizens in the private sector, however, have no part in any such necessity. Indeed, the immorality that emerges out of political necessity makes moral behavior much easier for them.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 04-02-10 at 09:21 PM.
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games
    First, I don't always live up to the ideal (ideals tend to work like that), but I never celebrate my or anybody else's inability to not live up to the ideal. If I fail, it isn't something I am proud of, though I will own it if forced to.
    That reeks of a liberal mea culpa. Now if I ever see a thread where a Democrat is being hammered for a borderline non-issue and you don't post with a moderate condemnation, I consider you a sinner by omission.

    Second, partisanship colors the debate over what a bad policy or what ethical politics are to the point actual badness or ethics is very hard to determine. I'm trying to stay in the realm of the obvious, where a strongly worded belief based on a significant amount of feeling fostered during a short period of time and suffering being undermined by its own originator is unmanly.
    Unmanly? Really? What a red herring. Why not just say that all anti-Obama people are impotent.

    'Boldness' is a generous way of putting it. It would have been more bold if he hadn't hastened to ensure his action couldn't be construed as breaking state law by refusing service to supporters of health care reform. As it is, he undermined the force of his own message by claiming he wasn't taking it that far; he stood up for his ideals to the point of expressing an inflammatory emotional response, but not to the point of actually putting his job at risk.

    A stoical person would not be capable of such an act (it would embarrass and demean him in his own eyes), and stoicism, a philosophy of self-reliance, determination, and dutifulness, is in practice a realization of manliness. Thus, his masculinity comes into question (not in a biological sense, but a moral one).

    Stoical people can make bold movements, but bold movements require personal risk and require a lot of build up. The doctor would have to endure a lot for years before an action like this could be considered a morally legitimate complaint rather than a tantrum. That's what we intuitively expect, since toddlers are sensitive to the point that every deviance from their specifications is a cause for them to voice a huge complaint; they don't need to suffer over a long period of time.
    Wow. Just wow. Seriously, warn me before you post next time so I can grab a glass of water. If you were any more dry and coarse, you'd be sandpaper. You got bent the hell out of shape over a joke. Amazing.

  7. #227
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    There is no evidence this doctor is asking his patients who they voted for.

    I think he should ammend the sign saying he will treat people that regret their vote now that they have seen the light.

    I think he got what he was after, having a bunch of know-nothings commenting on his action.

  8. #228
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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    I support what this doctor is doing. He isn't literally not giving care to Obama voters. However, he is aiding in America's treatment of the cancerous tumor that is the Obama doctrine and Democrat legislation.

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    There is no evidence this doctor is asking his patients who they voted for.

    I think he should ammend the sign saying he will treat people that regret their vote now that they have seen the light.

    I think he got what he was after, having a bunch of know-nothings commenting on his action.
    I think he should treat people who need it regardless of their political leanings, as he is a doctor. I also think that he has a right to protest the government's action, but he should point his ire at the powers that be, not his patients. His stance a amounts to: If you don't agree with my political beliefs, you're now wanted here. His note isn't illegal, and it doesn't violate his oath, but it's asinine nonetheless.

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    Re: Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    He is aiding in America's treatment of the cancerous tumor that is the Obama doctrine and Democrat legislation.
    By telling sick people he doesn't want to teat them?

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