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Thread: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    By attacking innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the conflict, the terrorists have done nothing to help address some very real needs that the Chechen people have. They have shifted the focus to the atrocity they committed. They have undermined emergent prospects for a continuing relaxation of security measures and all but eliminated prospects for a near-term political framework that would accommodate both the Chechen people's need for greater autonomy and Russia's vital interests in the Caucasus/core need for preservation of Russia's territorial integrity.

    Hopefully, in coming weeks and months, Russia will make progress in hunting down the terrorists and their leaders. Those responsible for deliberately attacking civilians should be brought to justice for their crimes.

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    By attacking innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the conflict, the terrorists have done nothing to help address some very real needs that the Chechen people have. They have shifted the focus to the atrocity they committed. They have undermined emergent prospects for a continuing relaxation of security measures and all but eliminated prospects for a near-term political framework that would accommodate both the Chechen people's need for greater autonomy and Russia's vital interests in the Caucasus/core need for preservation of Russia's territorial integrity.

    Hopefully, in coming weeks and months, Russia will make progress in hunting down the terrorists and their leaders. Those responsible for deliberately attacking civilians should be brought to justice for their crimes.
    Would that include those that bombed Grozny?
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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    You see the Russians have committed genocide against many of their neighbors to the tune of 35 - 50 million people killed by the Russians from the basic bullit in the head, famine, to execution by overwork in Siberia.
    One should not hold today's generation of Russians guilty for the horrific and numerous crimes against humanity that took place under Soviet tyranny. The commuters on Moscow's Metro were not the perpetrators' of the Soviets' crimes.

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Would that include those that bombed Grozny?
    Those responsible for war crimes, no matter which army they represent should always be held accountable for their actions. IMO, some of what took place e.g., the indiscriminate bombardment, amounted to war crimes. The principle of adhering to the Laws of War is extremely important. Once exemptions are made via rationalizations for those who violate those laws, that precedent grants license for others to do the same. In the long-run, such a development would translate into less/no protection for civilians and more lost lives than would otherwise be the case.

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    By attacking innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the conflict, the terrorists have done nothing to help address some very real needs that the Chechen people have. They have shifted the focus to the atrocity they committed. They have undermined emergent prospects for a continuing relaxation of security measures and all but eliminated prospects for a near-term political framework that would accommodate both the Chechen people's need for greater autonomy and Russia's vital interests in the Caucasus/core need for preservation of Russia's territorial integrity.

    Hopefully, in coming weeks and months, Russia will make progress in hunting down the terrorists and their leaders. Those responsible for deliberately attacking civilians should be brought to justice for their crimes.
    Why should the Chechens settle for mere "greater autonomy" and why should Chchens care for "Russia's vital interests in the Caucasus/core need for preservation of Russia's territorial integrity. " ? Chechens like all peoples of the earth should have a right to full freedom and independence.

    Chchenya is a separate country and deserves to be fully free of Russian imperialsm. No should care about "Russia's territorial integrity" because Russia is nothing but a prison of nations and a Gulag of peoples.

    Russia should be disbanded as a so called "country" because it is nothing but a filthy imperialist state.
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 03-31-10 at 10:36 PM.
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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Those responsible for war crimes, no matter which army they represent should always be held accountable for their actions. IMO, some of what took place e.g., the indiscriminate bombardment, amounted to war crimes. The principle of adhering to the Laws of War is extremely important. Once exemptions are made via rationalizations for those who violate those laws, that precedent grants license for others to do the same. In the long-run, such a development would translate into less/no protection for civilians and more lost lives than would otherwise be the case.
    yes yes and yes !!!!! The Russians brought this upon themselves becasue they behaved like barbarians since the beginning of time. You reap what you sow !!!!!!!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    One should not hold today's generation of Russians guilty for the horrific and numerous crimes against humanity that took place under Soviet tyranny. The commuters on Moscow's Metro were not the perpetrators' of the Soviets' crimes.
    NO, the attitude of the Putins are the same as those of Ivan The Terrible, Catherine the whore, CHEKKA, NKVD, KGB, Lenin, Stalin, Beria, etc. Those people in the metro have inherrited the empire from their ancestors they want to maintain that empire, and in doing so they need to pay for the sins of their ancestors, their contemporaries, and their future leaders. You want an empire and opppress minorites you better be ready to pay for it. And if getting your butt blown to bits in the METRO is the price for empire so be it.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    By attacking innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the conflict, the terrorists have done nothing to help address some very real needs that the Chechen people have. They have shifted the focus to the atrocity they committed. They have undermined emergent prospects for a continuing relaxation of security measures and all but eliminated prospects for a near-term political framework that would accommodate both the Chechen people's need for greater autonomy and Russia's vital interests in the Caucasus/core need for preservation of Russia's territorial integrity.

    Hopefully, in coming weeks and months, Russia will make progress in hunting down the terrorists and their leaders. Those responsible for deliberately attacking civilians should be brought to justice for their crimes.
    Then bring all of those who killed Chechen children, Georgians, or any non Rsussian peoples to justice. If all terorists are to be brought to justice than the real terrorists, Russians need to be brought to justice!!!!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Then bring all of those who killed Chechen children, Georgians, or any non Rsussian peoples to justice. If all terorists are to be brought to justice than the real terrorists, Russians need to be brought to justice!!!!
    It is sickening and also sad how you can claim that the Russian civilians who died on that Metro "reaped what they sowed" who cares what the Bible says? ARE YOU SERIOUS? You are NO DIFFERENT than the radical Islamists we fight today. How dare you use a religious text to try and say "See they deserved to die." How ****ing dare you! I am not a religious man, I don't give a crap about the verse "you reap what you sow." And maybe those Russians on the metro didn't believe in it either. You justify this sick atrocity on civilians because of the terrible pain and suffering the Chechen people have gone through. No one is saying the Chechens cannot be free, no one is saying they aren't just as lovely a people as the rest of the world, but YOU seem to be saying that is is OK to kill innocent civilians because they belong to a country that did atrocities throughout time. **** that. That is illogical and just plain horrible!

    So according to your logic:

    We should kill and maim as many Iranians civilians we can since their government and leaders are terrorists and have done terrorists acts?

    Every American civilian should be the target of an attack because George W. Bush authorized two wars and civilians in those countries have died therefore the civilians here are fair game?

    You know who you sound like? His name is Osama Bin Laden and this is his logic:

    (3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

    (a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

    (b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

    That is all included in Bin Ladens letter to America. Read it, educate yourself. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver
    This sounds eerily similar.

    I have deep feelings that you want what is right for the Chechen people! As do we all, but do not let your emotions be guided by hatred for modern Russian civilians. These innocent people on the subway, were just that, innocent. Please at least think this over.
    Last edited by Rightwing86; 04-01-10 at 03:35 AM.

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    Re: Chechen rebel leader claims he ordered attack on Moscow subway

    Until today I was not able to reach a decision on which act is more barbaric, monstrous and inhuman.

    The murdering of innocent civilians based on their nationality, or the expression of support for those murderers.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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