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Thread: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

  1. #21
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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    A triumph for Bush bashers everywhere.



    Hope Obama doesn't tap any lines with renewed Patriot Act.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    A triumph for Bush bashers everywhere.



    Hope Obama doesn't tap any lines with renewed Patriot Act.
    If he does, it will still be illegal and wrong. All presidents should follow the law. This shouldn't be hard to understand or change because we have irrational fears.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If he does, it will still be illegal and wrong. All presidents should follow the law. This shouldn't be hard to understand or change because we have irrational fears.
    Yeah, unfortunately politics was the reason here, could you imagine the republican response if he hadn't have renewed the patriot act. You'd never hear the end of it.

    I think it is still against the law and should become defunct. But then you gotta fix your politics and your fear mongering first. I had a realization the other day as I took a quite a few greyhound busses a couple of weeks ago, that if a terrorist really wanted to do something, he could. YOu can't protect every single thing in America. When I went in the Greyhound bus, they didn't check my bag, ID, nothing. I could have put anything in that bag. I just think the possibilities of targets is so large, that it just doesnt seem like it would be that hard to have terrorist attacks. So why aren't they happening?

    EDIT: I am not enciting Terrorism!

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    I do wonder on a couple of things here

    I wonder on the proportion of people who were for such wire taps before will be against them now with a new president vs the proportion of people against such wiretaps before but are for them now

    Which side will have the greater number of people changing their mind
    I was for them before, and I am for them now.

    HOWever, I notice a general lack of condemnation from those who voted for hope and change in this regard.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Yeah, unfortunately politics was the reason here, could you imagine the republican response if he hadn't have renewed the patriot act. You'd never hear the end of it.

    I think it is still against the law and should become defunct. But then you gotta fix your politics and your fear mongering first. I had a realization the other day as I took a quite a few greyhound busses a couple of weeks ago, that if a terrorist really wanted to do something, he could. YOu can't protect every single thing in America. When I went in the Greyhound bus, they didn't check my bag, ID, nothing. I could have put anything in that bag. I just think the possibilities of targets is so large, that it just doesnt seem like it would be that hard to have terrorist attacks. So why aren't they happening?

    EDIT: I am not enciting Terrorism!
    It was never a realistic possibility. When Clinton did next to nothing, it still took eight years. It was an irrational fear from day one. This is not to say that one day something might happen, but a lot of attacks were never a realistic fear. Frankly we have to fear from home grown fanatics.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I was for them before, and I am for them now.

    HOWever, I notice a general lack of condemnation from those who voted for hope and change in this regard.
    I condemn it completely. But as I said earlier, it is completely down to politics. The attacks from the right would have been neverending if he didn't renew it.

    I condemn because it is against the constitution... blatantly so. But it's allowed due to fear and not wanting to seem un-American (ironic that its called the patriot act). I just dont get how people see the Health Care bill as unconstitutional yet the Patriot act not when it absolutely is, regardless of whether its needed or not.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I condemn it completely. But as I said earlier, it is completely down to politics. The attacks from the right would have been neverending if he didn't renew it.

    I condemn because it is against the constitution... blatantly so.
    Perhaps not so blatantly -- the constitution does not require a warrant in -every- event.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    I think there is a difference between scanning communications lines in general and scanning select lines of individuals.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Perhaps not so blatantly -- the constitution does not require a warrant in -every- event.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    I do not think, that this supports unwarranted wire tapping.

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    Re: Bush-ordered wiretaps illegal, judge says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I do not think, that this supports unwarranted wire tapping.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated

    See underlined. Not every search/seizure is unreasonable.

    There is a compelling state interest in keeping terrorists from doing what terrorists do. To this end, the government has created a fairly narrow set of corcumstances under which they can listen in to conversations w/o a warrant.

    This, arguably, meets the requirements of strict scrutiny, and so does not qualify as an unreasonable search.

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