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Rail cops get great guns

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BmanMcfly

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City ramps up subway firepower over suicide bombings on Moscow trains - NYPOST.com

Hit city subways after Russia terror
By LACHLAN CARTWRIGHT, MURRAY WEISS and LEONARD GREENE
Last Updated: 11:06 AM, March 30, 2010

Stand clear of the submachine guns.

In an unusual move, a heavily armed NYPD security battalion with enough firepower to wipe out Downtown Brooklyn descended onto the city's subway trains yesterday in response to suicide bombings in Russia that killed dozens of passengers in Moscow's subway.

Bleary-eyed New Yorkers began their work weeks with a morning rush hour that featured city cops in full military gear, including helmets, goggles, body armor, sidearms and M16 assault rifles.

The underground arsenal startled sleepy straphangers, many of whom wondered whether the extra security was overkill.

Read more: City ramps up subway firepower over suicide bombings on Moscow trains - NYPOST.com
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Is this really necessary?

Is this the next step in 'stopping terrorism'?
 
Happens on the London underground regularly. In NI it's comonplace to see a foot patrol armed with MP5s and G3 assault rifles.
 
I don't see how an assault rifle is going to be any more or less effective against a guy with a bomb.
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
these are m4's, they are Carbines
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Gee I wonder where I got the idea that M16's were involved.

Bleary-eyed New Yorkers began their work weeks with a morning rush hour that featured city cops in full military gear, including helmets, goggles, body armor, sidearms and M16 assault rifles.
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Deuce said:
I don't see how an assault rifle is going to be any more or less effective against a guy with a bomb.
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As compared to ... ?

Rifles are more accurate, usually have a longer range, and sometimes have more stopping power and can also fire (in the case of M4's and M16 A2's) 3 shot bursts.
 
OK, well the cops are protected then....but what about everyone else? Can they have full body armor and M16's too?
 
Ikari said:
OK, well the cops are protected then....but what about everyone else? Can they have full body armor and M16's too?
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No, It's illegal for civilians to wear body armor. The M16's are gonna be a problem as well.

The reason they do this is to send a message to any would be terrorist that there is a military type presence that's prepared. It's kinda like displaying a 'Beware of Dog' sign on your property.
 
This is only my opinion...

It seems that this sort of reaction is what the terrorists wants. They probably wanted us to feel unsafe, that every where we go, we might be in danger of a terrorist attack. Thus, making our gov't spend more money in protective measures such as these, which sometimes makes citizens choose safety over some liberties and freedoms. Not only do they have us living in our own paranoia, but we have to spend more money to make us feel safer. It just seems like a very effective attack on our society.
 
PonyBoy said:
No, It's illegal for civilians to wear body armor. The M16's are gonna be a problem as well.

The reason they do this is to send a message to any would be terrorist that there is a military type presence that's prepared. It's kinda like displaying a 'Beware of Dog' sign on your property.
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Well wouldn't that be an even stronger message if everyone had full body armor and M16's?
 
I've seen the Hercules unit often since 9/11. They are designed to intimidate anyone that might have ideas to make trouble. This is nothing new.
 
Glitches Blind Half of Subway Cameras in New York City - AOL News


Glitches Blind Half of NYC's Subway Cameras


Carl Franzen Contributor
AOL News
(March 31) -- It turns out, Big Brother isn't always watching you. At least not in large swaths of the New York City subway system.

Almost half of all of the 4,313 security cameras installed throughout America's busiest public transit system are not functioning due to a trifecta of overlapping problems: mechanical, financial and legal.

Probably relates...
 
The semiautomatic weapons carried by police fire a .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO same thing. They are inferior to almost anything else including a 9mm Hand gun.

The .223 is basically a glorified high speed 22 with little knock down power and if a vital organ is not hit like the heart or brain the target is going to keep coming if they are determined.

What is needed for close range is a ,40 cal. a .45acp or .44 special fired from short barreled weapon that will have serious knock down power and stop an assailant dead in his or her tracks.

The .357 has the best first shot first kill percentage something like in the 90% range, but any magnum round might pass through the assailant and kill an innocent by stander.

While the M-16 or AR-15 both look impressive it would not be my first or even 2nd choice. I like the .38 super ACP myself because it's ballistics are almost the same as the .357 in a smaller cartridge.

The idea in this application has to be to keep a bomber from acting once identified. Knock down stay down is essential and might save lots of lives.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I've identified the rifles in the pictures. You can do what you wish with this information. :shrug:
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what're these ones?

Transit%20Hub%20Security%20Drill_002122253--500x380.jpg
 
spud_meister said:
what're these ones?
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As Alvin pointed out, it's an MP5.

:fyi:
They are sub machine guns because they use small caliber pistol ammo.
An assault rifle uses center fire cartridges, which are larger and generally are not used in pistols, although there are a few pistols that use rifle ammo.
 
Councilman said:
The semiautomatic weapons carried by police fire a .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO same thing. They are inferior to almost anything else including a 9mm Hand gun.

The .223 is basically a glorified high speed 22 with little knock down power and if a vital organ is not hit like the heart or brain the target is going to keep coming if they are determined.

What is needed for close range is a ,40 cal. a .45acp or .44 special fired from short barreled weapon that will have serious knock down power and stop an assailant dead in his or her tracks.

The .357 has the best first shot first kill percentage something like in the 90% range, but any magnum round might pass through the assailant and kill an innocent by stander.

While the M-16 or AR-15 both look impressive it would not be my first or even 2nd choice. I like the .38 super ACP myself because it's ballistics are almost the same as the .357 in a smaller cartridge.

The idea in this application has to be to keep a bomber from acting once identified. Knock down stay down is essential and might save lots of lives.
Click to expand...
That only covers one type of threat. A suicide bomber.
The idea is to cover as many types of potential threats as possible with the tools that you give the security forces.
The carbines are good at close to medium range, have good penetration against body armour, they are a much more stable firing platform, they carry twice to three times the amount of rounds in the magazine for follow up shots. Add to that they look as intimidating as hell, and one thing your terrorist likes is a nice big jucy undefended target.
For real close in work they have sidearms.

There is a secondary purpose of logistics involved in the choice too. If the NYPD have been using AR series rifles for special purposes the police are already trained in their use. They most likely already have a stock of the rounds a contract for parts etc. Its easier to stay with a platform you already use if it does the job rather than going with a new one.

The PSNI (the other routinely heavly armed police force I know of) usually carry the MP5. Most of their threats that can be defeated by firearms are unarmoured targets at close range. The MP5 is great for that. However drive bys are not unheard of, especially at traffic stops, or crimescenes etc. For that they usually have the larger G3 in 7.62mm providing cover. This weapon is reserved for single shot takedowns against targets in cover (usually means still in the car) and suppression.

As I said the most common weapons are the MP5 with Glock sidearms. This means that you only have to purchase one type of round in both weapons.
 
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The Hercules team are not "rail cops". They appear unscheduled, en masse, at busy intersections or areas in Manhattan, sometimes underground. The idea is to imprint in the mind of a potential terrorist "Holy s**t, I'm not f**king with these guys!".
 
BmanMcfly said:
Is this really necessary?
Is this the next step in 'stopping terrorism'?
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If the police need sub-machineguns to protect the public, then there's no way to argue that the public does not also need sub-machoneguns to protect itself.
 
Councilman said:
The semiautomatic weapons carried by police fire a .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO same thing. They are inferior to almost anything else including a 9mm Hand gun.
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What???????? :doh



Where did you get this misinformation? :doh


The .223 is basically a glorified high speed 22 with little knock down power and if a vital organ is not hit like the heart or brain the target is going to keep coming if they are determined.
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:: Ammo Oracle


/facepalm


What is needed for close range is a ,40 cal. a .45acp or .44 special fired from short barreled weapon that will have serious knock down power and stop an assailant dead in his or her tracks.

The .357 has the best first shot first kill percentage something like in the 90% range, but any magnum round might pass through the assailant and kill an innocent by stander.
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You use your blaster to fight your way back to your carbine....



There is no such thing as "knock down power", and no the .357 does not have a "90% 1 shot 1 kill" ratio.....



While the M-16 or AR-15 both look impressive it would not be my first or even 2nd choice. I like the .38 super ACP myself because it's ballistics are almost the same as the .357 in a smaller cartridge.
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.357 pistol can fire a .38, but no the ballistics are not close. and both are far more anemic than ANY carbine.




The idea in this application has to be to keep a bomber from acting once identified. Knock down stay down is essential and might save lots of lives.
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That's a matter more of training than selection of a .38 over an m4. /facepalm
 
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