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Thread: Rail cops get great guns

  1. #21
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    what're these ones?
    As Alvin pointed out, it's an MP5.


    They are sub machine guns because they use small caliber pistol ammo.
    An assault rifle uses center fire cartridges, which are larger and generally are not used in pistols, although there are a few pistols that use rifle ammo.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The semiautomatic weapons carried by police fire a .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO same thing. They are inferior to almost anything else including a 9mm Hand gun.

    The .223 is basically a glorified high speed 22 with little knock down power and if a vital organ is not hit like the heart or brain the target is going to keep coming if they are determined.

    What is needed for close range is a ,40 cal. a .45acp or .44 special fired from short barreled weapon that will have serious knock down power and stop an assailant dead in his or her tracks.

    The .357 has the best first shot first kill percentage something like in the 90% range, but any magnum round might pass through the assailant and kill an innocent by stander.

    While the M-16 or AR-15 both look impressive it would not be my first or even 2nd choice. I like the .38 super ACP myself because it's ballistics are almost the same as the .357 in a smaller cartridge.

    The idea in this application has to be to keep a bomber from acting once identified. Knock down stay down is essential and might save lots of lives.
    That only covers one type of threat. A suicide bomber.
    The idea is to cover as many types of potential threats as possible with the tools that you give the security forces.
    The carbines are good at close to medium range, have good penetration against body armour, they are a much more stable firing platform, they carry twice to three times the amount of rounds in the magazine for follow up shots. Add to that they look as intimidating as hell, and one thing your terrorist likes is a nice big jucy undefended target.
    For real close in work they have sidearms.

    There is a secondary purpose of logistics involved in the choice too. If the NYPD have been using AR series rifles for special purposes the police are already trained in their use. They most likely already have a stock of the rounds a contract for parts etc. Its easier to stay with a platform you already use if it does the job rather than going with a new one.

    The PSNI (the other routinely heavly armed police force I know of) usually carry the MP5. Most of their threats that can be defeated by firearms are unarmoured targets at close range. The MP5 is great for that. However drive bys are not unheard of, especially at traffic stops, or crimescenes etc. For that they usually have the larger G3 in 7.62mm providing cover. This weapon is reserved for single shot takedowns against targets in cover (usually means still in the car) and suppression.

    As I said the most common weapons are the MP5 with Glock sidearms. This means that you only have to purchase one type of round in both weapons.
    Last edited by Alvin T. Grey; 04-01-10 at 07:10 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    The Hercules team are not "rail cops". They appear unscheduled, en masse, at busy intersections or areas in Manhattan, sometimes underground. The idea is to imprint in the mind of a potential terrorist "Holy s**t, I'm not f**king with these guys!".

  4. #24
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Is this really necessary?
    Is this the next step in 'stopping terrorism'?
    If the police need sub-machineguns to protect the public, then there's no way to argue that the public does not also need sub-machoneguns to protect itself.

  5. #25
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The semiautomatic weapons carried by police fire a .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO same thing. They are inferior to almost anything else including a 9mm Hand gun.

    What????????



    Where did you get this misinformation?



    The .223 is basically a glorified high speed 22 with little knock down power and if a vital organ is not hit like the heart or brain the target is going to keep coming if they are determined.

    :: Ammo Oracle


    /facepalm


    What is needed for close range is a ,40 cal. a .45acp or .44 special fired from short barreled weapon that will have serious knock down power and stop an assailant dead in his or her tracks.

    The .357 has the best first shot first kill percentage something like in the 90% range, but any magnum round might pass through the assailant and kill an innocent by stander.

    You use your blaster to fight your way back to your carbine....



    There is no such thing as "knock down power", and no the .357 does not have a "90% 1 shot 1 kill" ratio.....



    While the M-16 or AR-15 both look impressive it would not be my first or even 2nd choice. I like the .38 super ACP myself because it's ballistics are almost the same as the .357 in a smaller cartridge.

    .357 pistol can fire a .38, but no the ballistics are not close. and both are far more anemic than ANY carbine.




    The idea in this application has to be to keep a bomber from acting once identified. Knock down stay down is essential and might save lots of lives.


    That's a matter more of training than selection of a .38 over an m4. /facepalm
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    what're these ones?




    mp5 9mm hk


    Note the last officer with poor finger control and poor muzzle coverage.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 04-01-10 at 04:31 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    OK, well the cops are protected then....but what about everyone else? Can they have full body armor and M16's too?
    Of course not, an armed populace makes the thugs in blue insecure, how else will they be able unload 50 rounds into people unchecked. Feudal Lord Bloomberg could simply let NYC citizens carry weapons but thats too hard.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    That only covers one type of threat. A suicide bomber.
    The idea is to cover as many types of potential threats as possible with the tools that you give the security forces.
    The carbines are good at close to medium range, have good penetration against body armour, they are a much more stable firing platform, they carry twice to three times the amount of rounds in the magazine for follow up shots. Add to that they look as intimidating as hell, and one thing your terrorist likes is a nice big jucy undefended target.
    For real close in work they have sidearms.

    There is a secondary purpose of logistics involved in the choice too. If the NYPD have been using AR series rifles for special purposes the police are already trained in their use. They most likely already have a stock of the rounds a contract for parts etc. Its easier to stay with a platform you already use if it does the job rather than going with a new one.

    The PSNI (the other routinely heavly armed police force I know of) usually carry the MP5. Most of their threats that can be defeated by firearms are unarmoured targets at close range. The MP5 is great for that. However drive bys are not unheard of, especially at traffic stops, or crimescenes etc. For that they usually have the larger G3 in 7.62mm providing cover. This weapon is reserved for single shot takedowns against targets in cover (usually means still in the car) and suppression.

    As I said the most common weapons are the MP5 with Glock sidearms. This means that you only have to purchase one type of round in both weapons.
    You are correct but the 9mm are still under powered. A 7.62 NATO (.308) does have some power behind it and for some time has been the round of choice for the Sniper. Again in close quarters has potential for collateral damage.

  9. #29
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    You are correct but the 9mm are still under powered. A 7.62 NATO (.308) does have some power behind it and for some time has been the round of choice for the Sniper. Again in close quarters has potential for collateral damage.
    The 9mm round is good for two things. Target practice and high rate of fire weapons, not much else. This is why the majority of police departments now use a .40 as the standard side arm.

    I am still a .45 man myself. Combat tested in every WW and up to Vietnam. If it works, don't **** with it.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Rail cops get great guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The 9mm round is good for two things. Target practice and high rate of fire weapons, not much else. This is why the majority of police departments now use a .40 as the standard side arm.

    I am still a .45 man myself. Combat tested in every WW and up to Vietnam. If it works, don't **** with it.



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