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Nine Charged in Bullying of Massachusetts Teen Who Killed Herself

rivrrat said:
I was talking about teens too.
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Then you'd be wrong about that, then. There is a distinct difference between how teens can and do handle situations like this, then how adults can and do. Teens', based on their developmental level are more impulsive, emotional, and react to these things far more easily than adults. Very different situation.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Then you'd be wrong about that, then. There is a distinct difference between how teens can and do handle situations like this, then how adults can and do. Teens', based on their developmental level are more impulsive, emotional, and react to these things far more easily than adults. Very different situation.
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Yes yes yes, I couldn't possibly understand because I was never a teen and certainly never bullied as a teen. I came from a cabbage patch all grow'd up and everyone has always been nothing but nice to me.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Then you'd be wrong about that, then. There is a distinct difference between how teens can and do handle situations like this, then how adults can and do. Teens', based on their developmental level are more impulsive, emotional, and react to these things far more easily than adults. Very different situation.
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Doesn't that go both ways?
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Emotions are what we cannot consciously control that filters through our mental structures. Because we can change those mental structures, we can to a degree control our emotions.
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No, we cannot. We can control our interpretations and how we respond to those emotions, as we can control how we react to stimuli. But one cannot control how they feel.

Moreover, emotions have more in common with sensory input than conscious thought, in that we have the choice to either recognize and accept those emotions or to ignore them and not allow them to get the best of us. Our mind is structured in such a way that, while we have limited control over our emotions, we do have a choice on how we deal with them.
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This is not controlling emotions. This is controlling one's reactions to those emotions.

Essentially I guess I am agreeing with your first paragraph, but that doesn't in my opinion touch on what I am saying, really. You've made some claims that I agree with, and that I think were implied in my post that you quoted, but towards the end you go on discussing the "strong potential". I understand that if we take humans in their normal state, which is generally not conscious of their mental faculties and the power that their mind can have over their emotions, we can draw conclusions about how people will act in certain situations, and of course having depression is going to increase the probability of suicide in that case. However, that's irrelevant to my point.

As for the "hard wired" thing, I don't think that's really accurate. I think that people develop these mental structures throughout their lives, and that some are more entrenched and difficult to change than others, but that in the long run they are all malleable to conscious will, and so I disagree with the idea of "hard wiring".
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Well, in my experience, I completely disagree. Some folks are genetically predisposed to certain psychological disorders. Their experiences can then affect how they deal with these things, but the predisposition, or "hard wiring" remains.
 
jallman said:
That's pretty much how I handled guys that acted the same way except it tended to get a little more physical sometimes. I had absolutely no problem trying to seriously injure anyone who touched me. I don't like being touched. You can say whatever you want and that's fine. That's your right. But the minute you enter my space and your hand lands somewhere on my body, I will see red and won't stop until you stop moving or get out of my reach. This was something that was common knowledge by the 5th week of our freshman year and I never really had to prove that point again. :lol:
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Well, I couldn't handle them physically, and I knew that. Six of them, one of me, I would have been a bloody mess. I mean, we're talking small town WV, up in the holler gals. :lol:

But, I had something they didn't have... the ability to remain calm no matter how upset I was. And make no mistake, I was scared ****less in that incident. I did NOT want to get into a fight with them, I knew what the outcome would be.

Having moved around so much as a kid, though, I was pretty used to being picked on as the "new girl". I was *always* the new girl. So, I learned and adapted. Don't give the reaction they want, and they stop trying to get said reaction. After all, it only makes THEM look bad when you don't react the way they want you too. Why would they keep making themselves look bad? LOL It's embarrassing.
 
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rivrrat said:
Yes yes yes, I couldn't possibly understand because I was never a teen and certainly never bullied as a teen. I came from a cabbage patch all grow'd up and everyone has always been nothing but nice to me.
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I didn't say that. What I am saying is you are using examples in managing these situations that may work fine for adults, but tend to NOT work for teens. We are talking about an age group that is far more impulsive, emotional and susceptible to peer pressure and peer acceptance. Do all teens fall in this category? No, but to some extent the vast majority.
 
rivrrat said:
Well, I couldn't handle them physically, and I knew that. Six of them, one of me, I would have been a bloody mess. I mean, we're talking small town WV, up in the holler gals. :lol:

But, I had something they didn't have... the ability to remain calm no matter how upset I was. And make no mistake, I was scared ****less in that incident. I did NOT want to get into a fight with them, I knew what the outcome would be.

Having moved around so much as a kid, though, I was pretty used to being picked on as the "new girl". I was *always* the new girl. So, I learned and adapted. Don't give the reaction they want, and they stop trying to get said reaction. After all, it only makes THEM look bad when you don't react the way they want you too. Why would they keep making themselves look bad? LOL It's embarrassing.
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That's true. Guys dont tend to jump each other in packs. It's usually a more one on one situation. And guys also tend to turn on each other when they smell weakness. Even if there is a group, if you just make one of them cry, the rest start laughing at him and leave you alone. :2razz:
 
jallman said:
Doesn't that go both ways?
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Absolutely. I'm NOT blaming the "bullies" for the girl committing suicide. That was HER responsibility, based on her issues. Not everyone in her situation would have made that choice. This was a series and a combination of bad things that brought on this conclusion. Mean kids whose bullying was severe and unchecked, with a girl who obviously had some psychological issues, thrown together with the unique culture of teenagers. Bad combination of things. I just think that by not looking at each of these things misses part of the story, here.
 
jallman said:
No, that attitude stops bullying from continuing.
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Give that advice to the wrong person, in the wrong situation, and they could get their ass kicked, get seriously injured or get killed. Had rivrrat taken your advice she would have been messed up, encouraging the bullies to do it again. Fighting back will sometimes work. Sometimes it's like tossing gas on a burning ember.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Absolutely. I'm NOT blaming the "bullies" for the girl committing suicide. That was HER responsibility, based on her issues. Not everyone in her situation would have made that choice. This was a series and a combination of bad things that brought on this conclusion. Mean kids whose bullying was severe and unchecked, with a girl who obviously had some psychological issues, thrown together with the unique culture of teenagers. Bad combination of things. I just think that by not looking at each of these things misses part of the story, here.
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That's where I am coming from. I think these girls are culpable for their bullying. They should get the normal treatment that bullies get which is suspension or expulsion for the year, if it was bad enough.

But now that this disturbed young lady has committed suicide, it seems that their consequences have been ramped up to match the reaction of the community and not to be commensurate with their culpability.
 
jallman said:
That's true. Guys dont tend to jump each other in packs. It's usually a more one on one situation. And guys also tend to turn on each other when they smell weakness. Even if there is a group, if you just make one of them cry, the rest start laughing at him and leave you alone. :2razz:
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You're not a counselor, are you? So many sterotypes. So many inaccuracies.
 
jallman said:
That's where I am coming from. I think these girls are culpable for their bullying. They should get the normal treatment that bullies get which is suspension or expulsion for the year, if it was bad enough.

But now that this disturbed young lady has committed suicide, it seems that their consequences have been ramped up to match the reaction of the community and not to be commensurate with their culpability.
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Have you looked at the evidence in the case to make this assertion?
 
ADK_Forever said:
You're not a counselor, are you? So many sterotypes. So many inaccuracies.
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What I am or am not is irrelevant. What would be relevant are statistics saying that standing up to bullies results in death. Good luck with that.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I didn't say that. What I am saying is you are using examples in managing these situations that may work fine for adults, but tend to NOT work for teens. We are talking about an age group that is far more impulsive, emotional and susceptible to peer pressure and peer acceptance. Do all teens fall in this category? No, but to some extent the vast majority.
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And I'm saying it DOES work for kids/teens too. 100% of the time? No. Nothing does. But, do you have any idea how many schools I went to over years? I encountered this **** from New York, to North Carolina, to Nevada, to Virginia, to WV while in school. It's always worked for me. And, it's worked as an adult too. Though as an adult, I use the "be nice to them" approach much more often.

You act like I've not actually SEEN it work as a teen. Or experienced it. I have. It DOES work.

Now, it is kind of irrelevant in this case because discussing what she "should have done" is pretty pointless. The only reason I brought it up was because someone pointedly asked me.
 
jallman said:
I've seen the exact same evidence you have.
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Okay. I have put my trust in the DA in bringing forth charges that she thinks she can substantiate.
 
aps said:
Okay. I have put my trust in the DA in bringing forth charges that she thinks she can substantiate.
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And that's fine. She is, after all, the professional here.

But I think these girls are being tried in the media because she knows she couldn't substantiate the claims otherwise.
 
jallman said:
And that's fine. She is, after all, the professional here.

But I think these girls are being tried in the media because she knows she couldn't substantiate the claims otherwise.
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I'm willing to let a judge or a jury decide the facts.
 
jallman said:
Then why are you even in this thread discussing it in the first place?
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Oh, is there a requirement that I have to not believe that a judge or jury should decide the facts in order to post in this thread? I had no idea. :roll:
 
aps said:
Oh, is there a requirement that I have to not believe that a judge or jury should decide the facts in order to post in this thread? I had no idea. :roll:
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No, but there is an expectation that you have something to say about the point of contention rather than "wait and see". You know, like a real argument or something.

You may proceed to post your stupid little yawny faces and make some statement of victimization before you run away tearfully again. :roll:
 
jallman said:
No, but there is an expectation that you have something to say about the point of contention rather than "wait and see". You know, like a real argument or something.

You may proceed to post your stupid little yawny faces and make some statement of victimization before you run away tearfully again. :roll:
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Why thank you! I think I will. *yawn* :rofl
 
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