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Nine Charged in Bullying of Massachusetts Teen Who Killed Herself

I would hope so. I won't hold my breath on it. But there has to be some level of punishment, and we've seemingly removed the natural check on this. So there has to be something in place. We go crazy with assault charges, but to me assault isn't punching someone in the mouth who deserves it. It's if you viciously beat someone up. We don't make that distinction anymore, but sometimes someone really just deserves to be punched. But without that, then we have unbridled the aggressors while punishing the victims. In such case; we still have to have something in place as punishment or the aggressors. Because of the severity of this case, I'm not opposed to jail time. And I would just hope that maybe they'll learn a thing or two because of it.

Actually, I am of two minds on the issue of jail time here. On one hand, I would like to join in the mob in calling for the heads of the cheerleaders. It is, after all, such an iconic and archetypal victory to see them dethroned in the most dramatic of ways. Plus, these girls were real classic bitches.

As for the two guys, well...how does statutory rape play in for the 17 year old? Not sure I get that. I am also of a mind to give them light sentences even for that because...well...boys will be boys and if she was a willing participant, you know? That's a tough call, too.

But my rational side says if we take these girls who might be horrible examples of kids gone totally down the sadistic path of bullying and teasing, did they actually do anything that would have gotten them in trouble if a disturbed young lady hadn't committed suicide? Are we really able to hold them accountable for the kind of senseless death that, by default, lays the suspicion at the hands of the one who did the killing: the one who committed suicide?

If someone needs to be blamed, blame the parents who weren't listening, the teachers who didn't intervene, the system that allows it...whatever. But don't take these kids who acted like kids and turn them into the animals that products of the justice system usually are.
 
Gray Fox 86 said:
But really suicide harms no one but yourself.

This isn't true. Suicide is one of the most selfish things you can do; it harms everybody that loves and cares about you infinitely more profoundly than it does yourself, because they have to live with it.

What she did to her family was infinitely worse than what those "bullies" did to her.
 
And part of the problem most kids just get made fun of once or twice but at least they have friends to talk with and make them feel better.

She obviously wasn't that much of an outcast. She was dating and having sex. :shrug:
 
She obviously wasn't that much of an outcast. She was dating and having sex. :shrug:

Oh thanks for reminding me that I never went out on a date or had sex, even now and I am 23. I have had sex though, just never have been on a date.
 
This isn't true. Suicide is one of the most selfish things you can do; it harms everybody that loves and cares about you infinitely more profoundly than it does yourself, because they have to live with it.

What she did to her family was infinitely worse than what those "bullies" did to her.

Depends on how much her family loved her.
 
Oh thanks for reminding me that I never went out on a date or had sex, even now and I am 23. I have had sex though, just never have been on a date.

That's tmi, bro.
 
Oh thanks for reminding me that I never went out on a date or had sex, even now and I am 23. I have had sex though, just never have been on a date.

I'm just saying that we need to put the hysteria aside and look at this rationally. You seem to have had it even tougher than this girl...so much so that you had to magnify her situation to make it match your experience.

All I am trying to do is point out that while our instinct may be to crucify the mean girls out of some twisted sympathy for the girl who killed herself, what is it really going to accomplish to lay this girl's disturbance at the feet of these other young people?
 
I don't understand how they bullied her online. Couldn't she change her e-mail or block them from her facebook or do something else like that so they couldn't contact her?

p.s. I'm not blaming this in any way on her I'm just curious.
 
I'm glad they're being criminally charged.
From what I recall of being a teenager, so much of the stuff that happens between girls is really about boys. It's about jealousy, competition, and status.
Even though boys are the cause, and even though they're oftentimes aware that it's going on, they tend to stay out of it.
I guess they figure it's girls' business.
If a bunch of girls decide to gang-pile another girl, even if a boy knows that he is, ostensibly, the reason... he won't intervene.
Sometimes boys deliberately instigate and actively egg it on. I'm sure it's an ego boost for them, when girls fight over them.
More often, they just stand back and watch, indirectly exacerbating the situation by their presence and their non-intervention.

Boys need to intervene when girls are being bullied.
I always taught my boys to be advocates for those weaker than themselves.
If a boy were being bullied by other boys, they would intervene- and have, more than once.

But when a girl is being bullied by other girls, I don't know if boys realize they have a right to intervene.
I don't know if they realize they have the power to stop it, almost effortlessly, without putting themselves at any risk whatsoever... because it's all about them in the first place.

Those of us with sons should teach our sons that it's okay to intervene in "girls' business", when that business is the mistreatment and abuse of a helpless classmate by a gang of female bullies.

Boys have more power to stop these situations than girls do.
In this case, they could've saved a life.

:twocents:
 
So she got roughly three months of "abuse" as the new kid at school. :shrug:



I am not inclined to accept prosecution-tailored rhetoric as being gospel truth. Sorry. Plus, everything said here is subjective. Period.



Then you know what? You don't allow people to twitter you, you don't have them on your facey space and you don't get on Craigslist and expose yourself to it. That's a reasonable healthy reaction. Hanging yourself in a coat closet is NOT a reasonable, healthy reaction to teasing.

Teasing happens. It happens. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it ok...but it is what it is. And it always has been since before the little girl hung herself in the closet and it still will be when this story goes out of the news cycle. Crucifying the cheerleaders isn't going to change that.



So she dated a boy and some girls decided to be catty...they scribbled her face out of some photos, knocked some books out of her hands, and threw some things. What kinds of things? Spitballs, paper balls...what?

None of that except threatening text messages seems like more than teasing. And as for the messages, why did they have her number to start with?




The rape needs to be addressed as well as the physical abuse that was witnessed.



A red bull can? Seriously? A friggin red bull can? As a dangerous weapon? I'm not buying this at all.



Oh so now it was STATUTORY rape. It wasn't date rape or some other kind of violent rape...but STATUTORY rape. I am now even less inclined to begin to believe this is anything but a cry of "crucify the cheerleaders" because of some mass hysteria over a community's inability to cope with the real problem here: a teenage suicide.



In other words, people who are around kids all day long and witness the behavior of kids all day long saw a bunch of kids acting like...typical kids? They saw no need to intervene (which can actually intensify the bullying later) because nothing was out of place enough to warrant intervention. :shrug:



Well there you go. No criminal negligence on the parts of the teachers. Troublesome because a teenager committed suicide, but not troublesome enough to warrant criminal matters for the people in charge.

But yeah, let's crucify the cheerleaders to make everyone feel better about it.

Yeah, what stellar citizens they are by attacking her again, chortling online about her death. And of course everyone knows how horribly maligned cheerleaders are. /sarcasm off

Your lack of compassion is stunning. Simply stunning. If the DA is wrong, as you are implying the language is tailored, that's a pretty big gamble with their career if they have no case. They certainly didn't wince on the charges they brought. For Pete's Sake they even named themselves the Mean Girls. They incorporated their intent to make her life hell and they did.


Forgive me if I discount your emotional attempt at vilifying me with your accusation that I "like her tormentors" am victimizing her again. That's not debate and discussion: that's you attempting to leverage emotional extortion against the my arguments.

One more time to attack me that way, and I will report. I understand that hearing about a teenage suicide can blur perceptions and inflame emotions, but you don't need to direct your ire at me. You can direct it at the arguments. kthanx.

How is equating you with the cheerleaders and their actions in violation of the rules of this board? I did not call you a name or use profanity. Your comments caused me to direct my ire towards you.

Yes it is an emotional issue and it should be. A girl is dead. Charges have been brought by the law against the people the DA deemed responsible for it. I don't understand the lack of compassion.
 
Do you really think putting kids in the justice system over this is going to create more compassionate adults out of them?

Sure you know better than that.

Those 'Mean Girls' will have a real eye opening at their reception by the 'Tough Hos' from The Hood. They'll find out what 'Mean' really is...

It's called 'Karma'.
 
Oh thanks for reminding me that I never went out on a date or had sex, even now and I am 23. I have had sex though, just never have been on a date.

You haven't learn how not to be a target yet? :doh
 
I'm glad they're being criminally charged.
From what I recall of being a teenager, so much of the stuff that happens between girls is really about boys. It's about jealousy, competition, and status.
Even though boys are the cause, and even though they're oftentimes aware that it's going on, they tend to stay out of it.
I guess they figure it's girls' business.
If a bunch of girls decide to gang-pile another girl, even if a boy knows that he is, ostensibly, the reason... he won't intervene.
Sometimes boys deliberately instigate and actively egg it on. I'm sure it's an ego boost for them, when girls fight over them.
More often, they just stand back and watch, indirectly exacerbating the situation by their presence and their non-intervention.

Boys need to intervene when girls are being bullied.
I always taught my boys to be advocates for those weaker than themselves.
If a boy were being bullied by other boys, they would intervene- and have, more than once.

But when a girl is being bullied by other girls, I don't know if boys realize they have a right to intervene.
I don't know if they realize they have the power to stop it, almost effortlessly, without putting themselves at any risk whatsoever... because it's all about them in the first place.

Those of us with sons should teach our sons that it's okay to intervene in "girls' business", when that business is the mistreatment and abuse of a helpless classmate by a gang of female bullies.

Boys have more power to stop these situations than girls do.
In this case, they could've saved a life.

:twocents:

Thank you! I agree completely.

I instructed all three of my kids (two boys and a girl) to intercede when they see/saw (two are out of high school) bullying and whoa be to them if I ever caught or heard of them doing it.
 
Thank you! I agree completely.

I instructed all three of my kids (two boys and a girl) to intercede when they see/saw (two are out of high school) bullying and whoa be to them if I ever caught or heard of them doing it.

I can't help but think if this girl had had an older brother at the school, this never would've happened.
 
What do you mean?

I mean, your unnecessary revelation regarding your sex life (or lack thereof) sets you up to be an object of ridicule.

Man, I totally sympathize with what you went through while in High School, it sounds terrible. That said, there is a reason why some people get targeted, something in their behavior that makes them vulnerable to sadistic bullies.

You should learn from your negative experiences while young how to avoid such scenarios in the future. Adulthood is a fresh start.
 
Yeah, what stellar citizens they are by attacking her again, chortling online about her death. And of course everyone knows how horribly maligned cheerleaders are. /sarcasm off


First and foremost, I never said they were stellar citizens and I have not defended their actions in the least. I would appreciate it if you would kindly respond to what I have actually said rather than the dishonest spin you put on it in your own mind.

Your lack of compassion is stunning. Simply stunning.

Likewise with your indulgence of total hysteria. :shrug:

If the DA is wrong, as you are implying the language is tailored, that's a pretty big gamble with their career if they have no case. They certainly didn't wince on the charges they brought. For Pete's Sake they even named themselves the Mean Girls. They incorporated their intent to make her life hell and they did.

OK, their little nickname was the title of a movie. A kids movie about what? Some bullying. It's an integral part of growing up...learning to handle teasing and bullying.


How is equating you with the cheerleaders and their actions in violation of the rules of this board? I did not call you a name or use profanity. Your comments caused me to direct my ire towards you.

Well, try it one more time and we'll let a mod decide. You may dissect my arguments, but you will not derail this discussion into the realm of idiotic ad homs.

Yes it is an emotional issue and it should be. A girl is dead. Charges have been brought by the law against the people the DA deemed responsible for it. I don't understand the lack of compassion.

The validity of those charges is central to this discussion, no? I don't understand the hyper-emotional hysteria.
 
Those 'Mean Girls' will have a real eye opening at their reception by the 'Tough Hos' from The Hood. They'll find out what 'Mean' really is...

It's called 'Karma'.

I don't think there's any way these kids will get sent to jail. This is grandstanding and nothing more. Probabtion for the threatening texts, maybe.

They aren't getting charged with anything that would send them to jail except the statutory rape charge for the boys and even that is shaky with one fo them definitely being a minor and the other possibly having been at the time.

I mean, you guys act like the girl got mobbed and strung up in a lynching. There's no evidence to that effect.
 
I have no problem whatsoever with teenagers doing time in kiddy jail for cruelty.
They'd do time if they were caught with pot.
They'd do time if they were drinking.
They'd do time if they stole a car and went joyriding.

To me, what these kids did is worse than all of those things, and it has nothing to do with Phoebe Price being dead.
I think they should do time for their behavior even if she hadn't killed herself.

If they were adults, and Phoebe were an adult, their behavior would've been criminal and landed them in jail.
They put their hands on her on numerous occasions.
 
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We know this as adults. We don't know this as kids until it's our turn to take an ass whipping because we pushed someone too far. I think many young people miss that lesson and it only serves to make the next generation more savage than the previous.

I read signature here once that I will never forget because of it's frank poignancy. I'll paraphrase it...

The level of disrespect tolerated in society grows as the number of young men who have suffered a punch in the mouth for showing disrespect decreases.

Mhm, but there's a well deserved slap for mouthing off and then there's getting hit for having the audacity to go to school.
 
Oh thanks for reminding me that I never went out on a date or had sex, even now and I am 23. I have had sex though, just never have been on a date.

Don't worry; I've never been out on a date either, and I'm practically middle-aged.

:lol:

I don't think people "go on dates", where I'm from. At least not the people I know.
They just hang out.
 
i cant help but think im so removed from this story in terms of my knowledge of what actually happened.How can we really judge that all those kids actually did anything that deserves punishment?
 
i cant help but think im so removed from this story in terms of my knowledge of what actually happened.How can we really judge that all those kids actually did anything that deserves punishment?

Presumably there will be witnesses, testimony, and evidence.
The DA would not have brought the charges if he didn't think there was some chance of pulling a case together.
 
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