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Seven arrested in FBI raids linked to Christian militia group

Chappy said:
After the insanity and cruelty of the Oklahoma City bombing, I rather think we should take militia members at their word when they say they intend to do harm to people.
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And I think you need to have proof that they're doing something illegal. But I suppose that's the difference between us. I want all the consequences of freedom and you seem willing to support whatever government intervention can isolate you from that.
 
Ikari said:
And I think you need to have proof that they're doing something illegal.
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Well from what I have read the FBI found evidence of plans that were aimed at killing police officers both while on duty and while attending a funeral of a fallen cop. I think that is pretty good proof to act like the FBI did.
 
soccerboy22 said:
Well from what I have read the FBI found evidence of plans that were aimed at killing police officers both while on duty and while attending a funeral of a fallen cop. I think that is pretty good proof to act like the FBI did.
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The report of the charging sounds like everything was based on hearsay. Which apparently counts for a lot these days, but I don't think it should. We'll see though, it will come out in the wash. At least these guys didn't get Wacoed.
 
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Ikari said:
The report of the charging sounds like everything was based on hearsay. Which apparently counts for a lot these days, but I don't think it should. We'll see though, it will come out in the wash. At least these guys didn't get Wacoed.
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Until we have a trial, no one will know for sure how strong the evidence is. The charges are extremely serious. I think we have to move past feeling bad for these wannabe terrorists, and be thankful that they did not get the chance to kill any police if they prove to be guilty, which I suspect they will.
 
Ikari said:
The report of the charging sounds like everything was based on hearsay. Which apparently counts for a lot these days, but I don't think it should. We'll see though, it will come out in the wash. At least these guys didn't get Wacoed.
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I agree with what you say and that it is still too early to form full opinions of what happened.

Although I did have to google Waco. Since it happened in 1993 I must have be like 5 or 6. Reading about it is sounds like it was a pretty rough time and I am glad an incident like that was avoided.
 
soccerboy22 said:
Although I did have to google Waco. Since it happened in 1993 I must have be like 5 or 6. Reading about it is sounds like it was a pretty rough time and I am glad an incident like that was avoided.
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Yeah, a rough time is putting it lightly. The ATF burned the compound down and all who were in it. Good ol' Janet Reno.
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, a rough time is putting it lightly. The ATF burned the compound down and all who were in it. Good ol' Janet Reno.
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I love people who side with criminals.
 
Redress said:
I love people who side with criminals.
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Those guys were just crazy religious types, got all sorts of them. Doesn't mean they deserve to be burned alive in their compound.

I love people who side with horrible, fascist government action. See, two can play the propaganda game.
 
Ikari said:
Those guys were just crazy religious types, got all sorts of them. Doesn't mean they deserve to be burned alive in their compound.

I love people who side with horrible, fascist government action. See, two can play the propaganda game.
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Except I did not. The government did not handle the situation well, but that does not change the fact that the Waco nuts where criminals, and that it is illegal to resist having a warrant served.
 
Redress said:
Except I did not. The government did not handle the situation well, but that does not change the fact that the Waco nuts where criminals, and that it is illegal to resist having a warrant served.
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Whackjob christianist survival cults get a free pass from some. :roll:
 
Redress said:
Except I did not. The government did not handle the situation well, but that does not change the fact that the Waco nuts where criminals, and that it is illegal to resist having a warrant served.
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They really weren't doing much wrong. I mean, not handling the situation correct, and setting fire to a compound with people holed up inside I think are maybe on different places on the ol' severity scale. And I prefer the whole "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" thing. But that's just me.
 
Ikari said:
They really weren't doing much wrong. I mean, not handling the situation correct, and setting fire to a compound with people holed up inside I think are maybe on different places on the ol' severity scale. And I prefer the whole "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" thing. But that's just me.
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At some point, the authorities have to decide who is more important, some whackjob religious cult with criminal charges against them, or those who try and enforce those laws. I will always side with those on the side of law and order. The mistake the government made was in not bombing the compound after the Davidian's barricaded themselves in it.
 
Redress said:
At some point, the authorities have to decide who is more important, some whackjob religious cult with criminal charges against them, or those who try and enforce those laws. I will always side with those on the side of law and order. The mistake the government made was in not bombing the compound after the Davidian's barricaded themselves in it.
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So basically you're ok with the government carrying out death sentences without trial. K, good to know.
 
Ikari said:
So basically you're ok with the government carrying out death sentences without trial. K, good to know.
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No, you let the people know the bomb is coming, give them time to get out unarmed if they choose. What does not need to happen is protecting criminals at large risk to those who protect our laws.

This has gone way off topic though, we might better continue this discussion elsewhere. In this case, at least the criminals were arrested peaceably.
 
Those who "protect our laws" are also subject to them. Trial by jury is what we have, and you can't excuse actions which lead to the mass death of suspects, women, and children. But I will agree with you in that I am certainly happy that these suspects were not Wacoed before they can have a trial.
 
What I don't understand is what these militiamen thought they were going to accomplish by killing police officers. Blowing up a police funeral? I cannot think of a faster way to ensure that the entire country turns on you and lets out a cheer when the FBI blows your stronghold to pieces on live television. Meanwhile, the country reels so far away from your political views that everything you believed in becomes just another crazy thing people our grandparents' generation thought.
 
liblady said:
if you wanted to discuss the article, why was your question about something else?

you clearly want to stir things up. pass.
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He is discussing the article by mentioning an analogy. Comparisons were allowed in my debate class.
 
Goobieman said:
This is true. When a Muslim group is acted against by the federal govermment -- especially if that federal governmenr was headed by GWB -- there was an immediate stink raised by the liberal left.

Christians? Well, that's OK.


The indictment specifies seditious conspiracy, conspiracy to use a WMD, teaching how to use explosives, and 2 counts of use of a firearm in comission of a felony.
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I don't think this was in the OP was it?
 
American said:
Link


Now the guilt or innocense of any of these people aside, can you imagine this happening to an Islamic group here? And then especially during a funeral?
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Yes, I can. If they were planning to kill people, Islamic groups would be targeted, just as surely as this Christian group was. The indictments have now been unsealed, and they show that this militia was planning to kill police officers.

The indictment unsealed in U.S. District Court today claims that the Hutaree planned to kill an unidentified member of local law enforcement and then attack the law enforcement officers who gather in Michigan for the funeral. According to the plan, the Hutaree would attack law enforcement vehicles during the funeral procession with improvised explosive devices rigged with projectiles, which constitute weapons of mass destruction, according to the announcement by U.S. Attorney Barbara L. McQuade.
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Article is here.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
Why are we surprised? I've never even heard of a militia group that wasn't Christian. Did someone think Christians aren't militant?
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Puh-leese.

There are militia that claim to be Christian oriented, and there are militia that are purely political in nature.

There are plenty of left wing militant groups that the media doesn't label as militia, but certainly could. ELF and ALF for starters.

The middle east is covered in Islamic Militias.

Epic Fail.
 
hey !! These guys are just one example of "angry" or whacked and angry people who unfortunately were prepared to conspire to committ domestic terorism.

Let us call this for what it is - domestic terrorism !! See people it's not just Muslims who are terrorists. Nice Christians boys and girls can go bad also.

This is the reason that I have railed against the excessive rhetoric of other groups who have been in the news lately who I believe have aided and abetted groups such as this by their own rhetoric.

Yes we all have the right to protest but sedition is not protest it is a crime.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Probably dont have many "left wingers" that join the military then join suspicious groups

They go to university then join suspicious groups like the ETA for example

Environmentalists are not likely to join the US military, then go and join the ETA
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ETA? Euskadi Ta Askatasuna? Is there a US organisation called ETA or do you have an active Basque separatist movement over there too?
 
Manc Skipper said:
Whackjob christianist survival cults get a free pass from some. :roll:
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Yup, with all the raids, arrests and detentions without trial of suspected Muslim terrorists you heard nothing but praise from the Right, and that includes many of those who would call themselves Libertarians on DP (not all, but many). Now the potential terrorists call themselves Christians, the bad guys are now the authorities. It redefines hypocrisy.

If it should come to pass that the people arrested from this group are detained indefinitely without charge, you'll find the ACLU and many, many liberal and leftist groups demanding they have their constitutional rights protected. I think that's the difference between left and right.
 
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