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Seven arrested in FBI raids linked to Christian militia group

Chappy said:
Free to go around plotting the murder of police officer, no thank you.
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There was no evidence of that. And free to do what you want until the point in which you actually infringe upon the rights of someone else. That's that.
 
You say no evidence without any way you could know that, but, obviously an indictment was handed down and a judge issued an arrest warrant all of which requires evidence, so I rather think there is evidence.
 
Chappy said:
You say no evidence without any way you could know that, but, obviously an indictment was handed down and a judge issued an arrest warrant all of which requires evidence, so I rather think there is evidence.
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The indictment is for conspiracy and trumped up guns charges, not what you claim. You're the one supporting government force here, it's up to you to prove the point; not me. Innocence is presumed.
 
Chappy said:
I feel safer knowing that these nutjobs are in custody.
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If they are convicted of the allegations, they should have the book thrown at them.

Personally, I'm just waiting for the usual Christain/militia/gun owner bashing. The press has been more than happy to repeat, over and over, the clips of these guys running around in their cammies, shooting their mean, evil, nasty, no good 'assault weapons'.
 
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Goobieman said:
The indictment:
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So, they basically said that WMD includes anything defined in Title 18 United States code section 921. Which is pretty much every weapon. That's a bit too much IMO. I think the majority of it sounds trumped up. I think instead you had kind of an isolationist, extremist movement which centered around militia and they ran their mouths a lot and bitched about the government a lot and finally the government had enough of it.
 
Andalublue said:
I'd have no problem with raids being made on Moslem militia groups planning attacks on Christian or any other target. As Pete pointed out, such raids have taken place. Did you, American, complain when these raids took place? In the interests of balance, of course.

I know nothing of the Hutaree, but if they are armed to the teeth (no doubt claiming their Second Amendment rights) and planning attacks on anyone, they need to be taken out.
Which aspect of the raid do you find troubling?
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The same could be said for Iran.......;)
 
Ikari said:
… I think the majority of it sounds trumped up. I think instead you had kind of an isolationist, extremist movement which centered around militia and they ran their mouths a lot and bitched about the government a lot and finally the government had enough of it.
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After the insanity and cruelty of the Oklahoma City bombing, I rather think we should take militia members at their word when they say they intend to do harm to people.
 
American said:
'Eventually, agents arrested Larry M. Williams, a convicted felon who was wanted because of unresolved warrants, including for not registering as a sex offender.'


"But the authorities said Mr. Abdullah, who had a lengthy criminal record and was forbidden to have a firearm, opened fire on the agents. "



And there was plenty of outrage from the Muslims and ACLU. We'll see where the ACLU stands on this no doubt by their silence. Furthermore I don't see where the militia group broke a law.
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detainees were being held for suspected visa violations and other offences
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shouldn't the law be enforced if these individuals where in violation of.
 
American said:
The Dept of HS has been targeting right wingers (including our veterans) as potential terrorists.

Napolitano stands by controversial report - Washington Times

Federal agency warns of radicals on right - Washington Times

Legion objects to vets as terror risk - Washington Times
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Yeah its been known that white supremecist and militia groups specifically target veterans for recruitment. So what was exactly wrong about the report that was originally commissioned under President George W. Bush? You do know he also commissioned a report about Left Wing Extremism as well but not much peep about it when it was released.
 
PogueMoran said:
Yeah its been known that white supremecist and militia groups specifically target veterans for recruitment. So what was exactly wrong about the report that was originally commissioned under President George W. Bush? You do know he also commissioned a report about Left Wing Extremism as well but not much peep about it when it was released.
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Well, it makes a lot more sense than recruiting hair dressers or florists.....;)
 
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PogueMoran said:
Yeah its been known that white supremecist and militia groups specifically target veterans for recruitment. So what was exactly wrong about the report that was originally commissioned under President George W. Bush? You do know he also commissioned a report about Left Wing Extremism as well but not much peep about it when it was released.
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That's because it didn't label anyone as potential terrorists.
 
Chappy said:
After the insanity and cruelty of the Oklahoma City bombing, I rather think we should take militia members at their word when they say they intend to do harm to people.
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It would be nice to be more specific about what kind of militia groups you are referring to, such as the White ayrian etc. There are many militia groups in this country that hold true to our constitution and don't make such threats.
 
Ikari said:
The indictment is for conspiracy and trumped up guns charges, not what you claim. You're the one supporting government force here, it's up to you to prove the point; not me. Innocence is presumed.
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I said I am glad the alleged conspirators are in custody. I didn't claim anything more than that. Seems to me, I am on safe ground on describing my own mental state on reading the article.
 
Chappy said:
After the insanity and cruelty of the Oklahoma City bombing, I rather think we should take militia members at their word when they say they intend to do harm to people.
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deltabtry said:
It would be nice to be more specific about what kind of militia groups you are referring to, such as the White ayrian etc. There are many militia groups in this country that hold true to our constitution and don't make such threats.
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I pointed to militia members who “say they intend to do harm to people.” Isn't that sufficiently specific?
 
Chappy said:
I pointed to militia members who “say they intend to do harm to people.” Isn't that sufficiently specific?
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Isn't that sufficiently specific
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Not really, I don't mean to nit pick but, this is why many people have the wrong impression and then make general judgment based on a label. This is what the media does. There are thousand of militia groups in this country and true patriots who believe in this country and all it processes in governing based on our constitution.

Although I am not asking you to correct it, I know and I assume most here know exactly what your talking about but, do you see the point I am trying to make.
 
deltabtry said:
Not really, I don't mean to nit pick but, this is why many people have the wrong impression and then make general judgment based on a label. This is what the media does. There are thousand of militia groups in this country and true patriots who believe in this country and all it processes in governing based on our constitution.

Although I am not asking you to correct it, I know and I assume most here know exactly what your talking about but, do you see the point I am trying to make.
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But are those militia's making threats to people or groups

Or are they saying the will defend the nation and constitution without making threats to specific people or groups
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
But are those militia's making threats to people or groups

Or are they saying the will defend the nation and constitution without making threats to specific people or groups
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They will defend the nation if those specific groups(right/left or center) threaten our country, constitution or processes, as required by our constitution and the constitutional oath given, this also applies to our military and all elected leaders. The threats are warranted to those who wish to violate our constitution, sovereignty or laws and do serve as a reminder that the American people have this right to enforce our constitution by all means required. That said, as a militia they do not have the right to make unprovoked threats or act on their own merit or initiative. Malitia's are groups who will support the federal government, military and states in accordance with the constitution when called upon by acting and legitimate authority.
 
deltabtry said:
… do you see the point I am trying to make.
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No, I guess I don't. I don't doubt there are patriotic people who belong to all kinds of military-related groups; e.g., historical reenactors, etc. They don't go around threatening to do harm to people, so power to them.

People associating in whatever they call it, militias, etc., loading up on arms and going around threatening people, they we should take at their word because failing to do so carries such severe consequences. I don't see the controversy in this limited and focused statement.
 
Chappy said:
No, I guess I don't. I don't doubt there are patriotic people who belong to all kinds of military-related groups; e.g., historical reenactors, etc. They don't go around threatening to do harm to people, so power to them.

People associating in whatever they call it, militias, etc., loading up on arms and going around threatening people, they we should take at their word because failing to do so carries such severe consequences. I don't see the controversy in this limited and focused statement.
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Then those people are not legitimate militia and if they were then their title should be stripped.
 
http://www.debatepolitics.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1058650013

This is what the prosecutors are saying they planned on doing

Prosecutors said the FBI moved in after learning that the group planned a violent reconnaissance mission some time in April.

snip

According to the indictment, the group hoped that by killing a police officer, they could then use home-made bombs to murder more officers who attended the funeral.

They also allegedly discussed other ways of attacking police, including using a fake emergency call to lure officers into an ambush and targeting their families.

After making an attack, the group intended to fall back to "rally points" protected by trip-wired explosives for what they expected to be a long siege, said prosecutors.

"It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more widespread uprising against the government", said the indictment.


cont
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Lord Tammerlain said:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1058650013

This is what the prosecutors are saying they planned on doing
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Can't wait to see conservatives try and defend this! Being that specific, it's hard to use the "just venting" argument. A clear and direct threat by a group with the means and motive to implement it is worthy of law enforcement's attention, regardless of the race, religion, or political makeup of the group making the threat.
 
Deuce said:
Can't wait to see conservatives try and defend this! Being that specific, it's hard to use the "just venting" argument. A clear and direct threat by a group with the means and motive to implement it is worthy of law enforcement's attention, regardless of the race, religion, or political makeup of the group making the threat.
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Generally I would consider the threat they posed (if the allegations are true) to be higher then the Liberty City group that was arrested and convicted for wanting to attack the Sears Tower

(Generally as they had the means to carry out their threats)
 
Deuce said:
Can't wait to see conservatives try and defend this! …
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Do you really pin this on conservatives? I guess that's why they react so strongly when stories like this appear. It's kind of the American nightmare, religious group arms itself to the teeth and wants to bring about the end of the world by committing mass murder.

Personally, I don't assign this to the conservative persuasion. My initial take is this is more about what happens when religion goes off the rails. Don't you just love it that this was a “Christian” sect. What would Jesus do?
 
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