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Thread: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

  1. #51
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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I strongly disagree.

    Guilt is neither collective nor inherited. Indeed, if it were, actual and perceived grievances would persist for perpetuity and the future would become a continual quest for avenging those actual or perceived grievances of the past, no matter how far in the past they occurred. Distinctions between individual guilt or innocence would cease to exist. The rule of law would be irrelevant. Unarmed civilians, including women and children, would enjoy no sanctuary. Genocide would become the single means by which the perpetual cycle of vengeance could be ended. That would be an ugly world, to put things very mildly. It would be anything but civilized by any sense of the term.
    I am not talking about colective guilt I am talking about a people's fight fo greedom. let Chchenya be free and they will no longer attack you Metro or trains or planes.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Alexa,

    Most ethnic conflicts can be very brutal. The one(s) in the Caucasus region are no exception. That some of the Russian military operations were heavy handed, to say the least, is well-established. That the terrorists engaged in extremely brutal conduct is also well-established.

    I believe most concur that at some point in time, a political dimension that accommodates both the needs of the Chechen residents (greater autonomy and economic development) and needs of Russia (vital interests in the Caucasus and preservation of Russia's territorial integrity) would be beneficial.

    Unfortunately, so long as the terrorism persists, not just in the Chechen region but also across the Caucasus, such an added dimension will likely not be possible. In fact, just days before the senseless terrorist attack in Moscow's Metro, Russia's deputy prime minister had discussed an aggressive socioeconomic development program, including the taking into account human rights, in the North Caucasus region, including the Chechen region, according to BBC Monitoring. That campaign has likely been disrupted by the terrorist attacks and tougher counterterrorism measures are probably the more likely route now.

    The terrorism cannot nor should not be rationalized. Rationalizing the deliberate actions of an entity that run counter to the Laws of War establishes a precedent for others to rationalize similar conduct. It also grants de facto license to others to engage in similar practices. The end result is only reduced welfare for civilians. Therefore, even as a political dimension would be helpful, I believe the world should support Russia's quest to eradicate the terrorism so that such a political solution can become viable. Needless to say, like all combatants, Russia also has a responsibility to act in a fashion consistent with the Laws of War.
    Give me a break " heavy handed, to say the least," It was genocide, ethnocide, and muder by the Russians. The Russians are the terrorists here not the Chechens.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

  3. #53
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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Killing innocent civilians who have got nothing to do with their situation is a monstrous act, made by monsters, who deserve no sympathy from a human being.
    Yet if one is of the mind that Russians are not human becasue they did not behave as humans towards others then it is ok to take revenge upon all of them. Right !!! War is war !!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Yet if one is of the mind that Russians are not human becasue they did not behave as humans towards others then it is ok to take revenge upon all of them. Right !!! War is war !!
    I'm not going to even bother replying to this comment.

    It is clear that our moral codes differ by light years.
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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Alexa,

    Just so it is clear, I did not suggest or mean to suggest that you condone the terrorist attacks.

    With respect to human rights, according to BBC Monitoring on 24 March, which is a subscription service that translates various foreign language news stories, the human rights improvements were supposed to be a part of the larger set of socioeconomic reforms to be undertaken. My guess is that any implementation was either in the very early stages or intended in the near future when the overall strategy was carried out. Now, it is quite likely that any such efforts will be put on hold, with an emphasis placed on counterterrorism.
    Thank you.

    The end of beatings, torture, murder and people disappearing should have been the very first thing to change and should never have happened in the first place.

    There is no reason or excuse for a State to be engaging in the sort of things it is doing in Chechyna nor any reason for us to support their tactics.

    Every Chechens life is as important as every Russian one and I hate to say it but that seemed to be the logic of the Chechens in the documentary I saw which allowed them to psychologically start to do such despicable things.

    Russia is acting wrongly and should be criticised accordingly, or do we just wait till the full genocide of the Chechen people - I understand half are gone already.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    U and Metalgear are conviently forgetting about the deaths of innocent Chechens, and is that not terrorism? Nobody likes to see the deaths of innocent people, but what do you expect from people who have lost their whole families? Do you expect them to just sit by and forget? I agree that that the attack should have happened on a government structure and that the civilians should not have died.

    Grey Fox.

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

    - Ghandi


    But what can you expect from females whose children were taken from them by the Russians and they do not know if they are dead or alive? Imagine having to go through that for years and you do not know the whereabouts of your child? What would you do?
    I feel that the Chechens would have attacked government buildings but they do not have the necessary power, and that the war method they are following does not allow for them to attack structures that are heavly defended against any possible attack.
    Read what i wrote. I took into full account what the Russians did to the Chechens. As i said, the AUTHORITIES should be paying with it for there petty crimes against humanity, not innocent civilians who had absolutely no say or choice in the matter what so ever....my point was, they are blowing up the wrong people, yes?

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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Yet if one is of the mind that Russians are not human becasue they did not behave as humans towards others then it is ok to take revenge upon all of them. Right !!! War is war !!
    FWIW, that is a line of argument that rationalizes any atrocities, war crimes or other crimes against humanity that may be perpetrated during a conflict. For good reason, the Laws of War reject that kind of reasoning, barring the deliberate targeting of civilians, prohibiting indiscriminate bombardment, among other heinous acts. Those who carry out such indefensible acts should rightly be brought to account.

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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You do know what Moscow has done to these people right?
    So that condones murdering innocent people?

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    Re: Moscow metro was attacked

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    We get a lot of em in the Europe section.. usually about Georgia, the Baltic states and Russia.
    Yeah, and the subjects they broach are interesting, and I'd like to discuss them, but like you say, they never respond.

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    Re: Blasts in Moscow metro kill at least 37

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Now, I know a man is supposed to get 72 vigins for their 'sacrafice'.....
    What is the reward for women?.....
    A night with Nancy Pelosi.
    Last edited by bicycleman; 03-31-10 at 08:07 AM.

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