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Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

Lord Tammerlain said:
Yes I am looking at it as a property perspective.
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Then you should stop debating with me. There is no such thing as "property" rights or boarder integrity in a war.

Canada has no authority over the territory of the USof A. As such the US of A has the right to do what ever it wants to on its property
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Wrong. The USA doesnt have the right to do what ever it wants on its property, simple AS. Neither did Saddam Hussein, neither does Iran. In the case of Gaza/Israel, the two are locking heads and always have been. In a conflict, in a war and battle, sovereign lines become blurred and both sides fight for there safety.
That is what Israel is doing and she has the right to make sure her neighbors do not infringe upon her own safety.

Canada and moan and complain but it has no right to attack the US over things the US does in US territory (unless it is committing international warcrimes and placing explosives in US territory is not an international warcrime).
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Canada feeling it was a provocative act and a casus belli would mean Canada was being an idiot and should get beat down for being a bunch of morons. It is not a provocative act to defend ones boarders with mines or explosives or Anti Aircraft missile that fire only on planes that cross into your territory
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Its a provocation, and a provocation is enough reason to hit back. Had the explosives been planted away from the boarder, then Israel would have no right whatsoever to get involved.
This was not the case.
Also bear in mind nobody attacked anybody until Hamas tried to kidnap yet another IDF soldier.
In a war where one side commits continous acts of provocation, war crimes and supports Jihad, the soldiers where merely performing there duty and protecting.



Canada isn't a terrorist organization, for starters.
Also please explain how the purpose of one explosive is meant to "protect the boarder" rather than create a deliberate terrorist attack on patrolling soldiers? The IDF has a responsibility to prevent such things from happening.

Hamas planting explosives in Gaza is perfectly fine, Hamas planting them in Israel would not be. Nothing worring about that.
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Yes it can, and both sides can place as many explosives on their side of the boarder as they want. Crossing the boarder is a provocation worthy of response, giving the other side the finger is not. Blockading a country is worthy of a response, not trading with a country is not.
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May i also remind you the blockade has seen the dramatic fall of HAMAS SPONSORERED JIHADIST attacks against Israel?
Hamas CAUSED provocation, the blockade is merely a response to that.

Also the logic is flawed. Yes, you are right, they CAN place as many explosives on there side of the boarder as they want.
That doesnt make it any less of a provocation that should be met with a bollocking, so to speak.
 
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WTH?? Haven't heard about this from the media.

The media was all over this last time Israel sent military forces to Gaza.

What gives?


Thank you for this news story.
 
You are aware that it is their own attacks on Israel that endanger their own safety right? They do not attack they do not get attacked? That device had nothing to do with Palestinian safety.

Moe
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Yes it can, and both sides can place as many explosives on their side of the boarder as they want. Crossing the boarder is a provocation worthy of response, giving the other side the finger is not.
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It is not necessary for Hamas to cross the Israeli border to act as provocateur. They could have been setting up a rocket launcher or mortar tubes. Under the current Israel/Hamas war ambiance, such suspicious activity needed to be investigated. If they were planting flowers then hey, no problem. But they were not planting flowers. Do you imagine they were planting explosives by the border to kill fellow Palestinians?

Your whole thesis here makes absolutely no sense in the real world. It is a luxury abstract constructed from the cloths of naivety and distance.
 
Tashah said:
It is not necessary for Hamas to cross the Israeli border to act as provocateur. They could have been setting up a rocket launcher or mortar tubes. Under the current Israel/Hamas war ambiance, such suspicious activity needed to be investigated. If they were planting flowers then hey, no problem. But they were not planting flowers. Do you imagine they were planting explosives by the border to kill fellow Palestinians?

Your whole thesis here makes absolutely no sense in the real world. It is a luxury abstract constructed from the cloths of naivety and distance.
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It seems that a lot of people don't really understand how dangerous it is on a daily basis & that Israelis must be on guard 24/7........:(
 
Jucon said:
WTH?? Haven't heard about this from the media.

The media was all over this last time Israel sent military forces to Gaza.

What gives?


Thank you for this news story.
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Minor incursion, what you are talking about was an all out cross boarder war (when the media was "all over this last time"). This is nothing new.
 
donsutherland1 said:
The pursuit of peace is preferable. However, there are two major barriers right now:

1. The Palestinian leadership in Ramallah is maintaining a self-imposed boycott on negotiations. Without negotiations, peace cannot be pursued diplomatically.

You are quite correct, but they say negotiations can go ahead if Israel ceases planning and building additional settlements.

2. Hamas rejects Israel's right to exist and it rejects negotiations. Furthermore, it defines such rejectionism as a requirement of religious faith. From Hamas' charter:

Hamas are filth, they will never adhere to any agreement even if they themselves sign up to an agreement.

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgment Day...

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
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One might propose that they wait peacefully until Judgement day arrives.
 
MetalGear said:
I corrected myself, look back at my post.

Do you actually think placing mines near the boarder is ok? You dont see that as a provocation? Really? :confused:



The IDF didnt attack them until Hamas attempted to kidnap a soldier. The US in this case is clearly provocating Canada. As a result, Canada would have the right to neutralize the targets especially if she believed those targets posed a threat to the nation...in this instance there is more of an excuse because Hamas is also a terrorist faction.
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There is no shortage of provocation on either side. I'm rather bored with it. I wish they would just duke it out once and for all. Whatever. As long as the US isn't involved or sending any $$$, to either side, I don't care what they do. But, I will cheer for the Israeli's from the peanut gallery. That much support I am willing to offer.

Their cycle of conflict is not at the top of the list on things we should get done first here in the US. We need to focus inward for once.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Read the article
SEVERAL DOZEN meters in Palestinian territory

Meaning the only way Israeli forces could be affected is if they cross into Palestinian territory
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The kill radius of a 155mm round is 50 meters; well within the, "SEVERAL DOZEN", meters you're claiming.
 
Captain America said:
There is no shortage of provocation on either side. I'm rather bored with it. I wish they would just duke it out once and for all. Whatever. As long as the US isn't involved or sending any $$$, to either side, I don't care what they do. But, I will cheer for the Israeli's from the peanut gallery. That much support I am willing to offer.

Their cycle of conflict is not at the top of the list on things we should get done first here in the US. We need to focus inward for once.
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I agree that we should just let them duke it out and decide things once and for all, except that if things turn for the worse for the IDF--which I seriously doubt would happen--we deploy US forces to turn the tide back in favor of the IDF.
 
apdst said:
The kill radius of a 155mm round is 50 meters; well within the, "SEVERAL DOZEN", meters you're claiming.
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So the Israelis could patrol 200 meters on the Israeli side of the boarder, problem solved
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So the Israelis could patrol 200 meters on the Israeli side of the boarder, problem solved
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Yeah, that makes alotta sense. Then, the Islamofacists would have an easier time of crossing the border fence and planting more exlosives inside the border.

Let's just make it a half-a-mile, to be on the safe side.
 
apdst said:
Yeah, that makes alotta sense. Then, the Islamofacists would have an easier time of crossing the border fence and planting more exlosives inside the border.

Let's just make it a half-a-mile, to be on the safe side.
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It would not be any easier to cross the boarder fence due to patrolling 1 meter from it or 200 meters from it.

And as Israel is one of the world leaders in unmanned drones, it could have those patrol right beside the fence while the Israeli soldiers were 200 meters away in relative safety.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
It would not be any easier to cross the boarder fence due to patrolling 1 meter from it or 200 meters from it.

And as Israel is one of the world leaders in unmanned drones, it could have those patrol right beside the fence while the Israeli soldiers were 200 meters away in relative safety.
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Go outside and place a marker on the ground. Measure 1 meter from that marker. Then measure 200 meters from that marker. Then tell me how much more/less visability you have between the two distances from the marker. Then, factor in terrain and vegitation. After you've done all that, try to see at a distance of 200 meters, at night, without illumination.

After you've done all that, come back and sell us that drivel.
 
apdst said:
Go outside and place a marker on the ground. Measure 1 meter from that marker. Then measure 200 meters from that marker. Then tell me how much more/less visability you have between the two distances from the marker. Then, factor in terrain and vegitation. After you've done all that, try to see at a distance of 200 meters, at night, without illumination.

After you've done all that, come back and sell us that drivel.
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If they are so scared about explosives placed on the Palestinian side of the boarder they should not get that close.

Israel has the right to place explosives on its side of the boarder, and so should the Palestinians. The Palestinians do not have the right to enforce a buffer zone on the Israeli side of the boarder and Israel should not either
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
If they are so scared about explosives placed on the Palestinian side of the boarder they should not get that close.

Israel has the right to place explosives on its side of the boarder, and so should the Palestinians. The Palestinians do not have the right to enforce a buffer zone on the Israeli side of the boarder and Israel should not either
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The Palestinians do have that right, but that right does not extend to using those explosives to kill Israelis on the Israeli side of the border.

I know this will make too much sense for you, but how 'bout the Pals just not plant explosives that are designed to reach across the border and kill Israelis? :2wave:
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Why should we care again?
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Because we are not Europeans. We understand what obligation means. In other words, we are stuck caring about Israel's position as much as we are stuck doing business with the House of Saud.

It is also strategically in our interest to care. It was Israel that took out Saddam HUssein's nuclear capabilities. It will be Israel that takes out nuclear threats in Iran.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
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Israel has the right to place explosives on its side of the boarder, and so should the Palestinians. The Palestinians do not have the right to enforce a buffer zone on the Israeli side of the boarder and Israel should not either
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Point of Information.

Both indeed have the 'right' to have explosives on their side of the border. But Gaza/Hamas and Israel are currently at WAR and have made incursions and fire onto the others side.
During WAR both sides attempt destroy each other's military assets on both sides of the border! (tho Hamas targets mostly civilians)
That's what 'war' is and what both sides have been doing.
There is No Peace, No treaty, No recognition.. nor even at the moment a truce.
-
 
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jujuman13 said:
One might propose that they wait peacefully until Judgement day arrives.
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This is the problem. Christians and Muslims have been mandated b y the creators of their religion to spread and "witness" about God. (Review history for details.) Jews are Chosen and thusly have no prescription to spread, conquer, and bring God. (Review history for details.)

Waiting for judgement day is easy for a Jew who is Chosen. For a Christian, forgiveness and belief, while being a good witness or defending God, finds passage to heaven. For a Muslim, there is no mechanism that guarantees passage. One is merely to be a "good" Muslim. But what is a "good" Muslim? Is it what the store keeper on the corner does or is it what a militant for Al-Queda does?

Waiting for Judgement Day is a lttle harder for Muslims who question what is and is not a good Muslim in the Middle Eastern culture....especially when it comes to "defending" Islam as Muhammad demonstrated and mandated.

Any claim that this is a conflict of yards and homes is not seeing the reality of this conflict.
 
apdst said:
I agree that we should just let them duke it out and decide things once and for all, except that if things turn for the worse for the IDF--which I seriously doubt would happen--we deploy US forces to turn the tide back in favor of the IDF.
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That's where we part company.

First, I conceed, it's easy to be relaxed in my opinion, knowing Israel could hand each and every foe of their's, their camel's ass on a silver platter, in war. But I think, the impression that the US will support Israel, or any other nation for that matter, unconditionally, is just wrong.

It's a cycle.

Settlements
Rocks and rockets.
Tanks and body bags.
Calm.
Settlements.
Rocks and rockets.
Tanks and body bags.

Meanwhile, the US is hated for supporting this controversy by proxy.

That's like saying, "Let 'em fight it out, mono/mono, like men, Unless of couse, our guy starts losing.
 
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Captain America said:
Meanwhile, the US is hated for supporting this controversy by proxy.
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If we just sat it out, the Islamofacists would hate us for just sitting it out. Same difference, either way. We might as well get something out of it.
 
apdst said:
If we just sat it out, the Islamofacists would hate us for just sitting it out. Same difference, either way. We might as well get something out of it.
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I wouldn't wanna come to the Islamo's rescue either, when Israel opens a can of whup-ass on them. I say winner takes all. Last man standing turn out the light.

At the sound of the bell.......
 
Captain America said:
I wouldn't wanna come to the Islamo's rescue either, when Israel opens a can of whup-ass on them. I say winner takes all. Last man standing turn out the light.

At the sound of the bell.......
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Agreed, with the exception that we make sure Israel is the king of the hill at the end of the day.
 
apdst said:
Agreed, with the exception that we make sure Israel is the king of the hill at the end of the day.
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Ya see?

THAT'S what's getting our tower's decimated, our treasures exhausted and our children taken away.

I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Wanna talk about beer?
 
Captain America said:
Ya see?

THAT'S what's getting our tower's decimated, our treasures exhausted and our children taken away.

I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.
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And, if we didn't make sure that Israel took all the marbles, the violence would only get worse. I know, judging from your past posts, that you posess the common sense to realize that the Islamofacists are going to hate us and try to kill us, no matter what.

Wanna talk about beer?
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No! Because I bet your taste in beer sucks goat nads.:mrgreen:
 
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