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Thread: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

  1. #21
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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    If recruitment of Hamas members increases in proportion to the ass whooping they receive, then i guess a couple of years down the line there will be no more people left in Gaza....problem solved.

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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I don't see the logic here.

    Hamas has attacked a squad that came to deal with a border breach, as a result two Israeli soldiers and two Palestinian militants were killed.

    Adding that to the recent increase in rockets, to the soldier that has died a few days ago under similar circumstances, and to the person who was killed by a Palestinian rocket last week, and we have an escalation by Hamas.

    Cast Lead 2 is no longer so far.
    What is hard to understand

    If the explosives were being placed on the Palestinain/Gaza side of the boarder then no breach occurred by the Palestinians and crossing the boarder by the Israeli's was wrong. Which means Hamas fighting against them was more then justified

    If the explosives were being placed on the Israeli side then the crossing of the boarder by the Israeli forces to catch/kill the people placing the explosives was justified
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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    What is hard to understand

    If the explosives were being placed on the Palestinain/Gaza side of the boarder then no breach occurred by the Palestinians and crossing the boarder by the Israeli's was wrong. Which means Hamas fighting against them was more then justified

    If the explosives were being placed on the Israeli side then the crossing of the boarder by the Israeli forces to catch/kill the people placing the explosives was justified
    Wait, Hamas tried to breach the boarder. Even if the bombs where placed on there side of the territory, that is most definitely provocation. What where they doing trying to blow the boarder blockade up anyway? Breach the boarder? I think there intent was clear and obvious, it most definetly constitutes an agressive act.

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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalGear View Post
    Wait, Hamas tried to breach the boarder. Even if the bombs where placed on there side of the territory, that is most definitely provocation. What where they doing trying to blow the boarder blockade up anyway? Breach the boarder? I think there intent was clear and obvious, it most definetly constitutes an agressive act.
    Placing explosives or mines on your side of the boarder is perfectly fine

    Crossing the boarder is not

    And the article does not indicate which side of the boarder the explosives were being placed.

    Now as for an agressive act. Blockades are considered an act of war, so each day Israel enforce it it is creating an agressive act
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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The pursuit of peace is preferable. However, there are two major barriers right now:

    1. The Palestinian leadership in Ramallah is maintaining a self-imposed boycott on negotiations. Without negotiations, peace cannot be pursued diplomatically.
    I agree with you there. I was unaware that Israel was repared to have any kind of negotiations with Hamas.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post

    2. Hamas rejects Israel's right to exist and it rejects negotiations. Furthermore, it defines such rejectionism as a requirement of religious faith. From Hamas' charter:

    The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgment Day...

    Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
    I am aware that that is in it's charter though I heard they intended to drop it when they were first elected.

    As Gerald Hoffman said, something like Hamas may be crap but they are the only people in town.

    Hamas is representative of the people of Gaza and although they certainly do seem to be getting more and more on side the harder things become for them, I do not see this as anthing which cannot be resolved providing talks begin.

    I am amazed at how much this world has forgoten psychology - ok to be fair, Israel hears they want no Israel and thinks Holocaust, but I was watching a film on inside Gaza the other day and the kids are just like any other kids. They don't understand why you hate them so much and some of them do want to get revenge for the death of their loved ones when they grow up. I don't think any of them spoke any Islamist stuff. They just wondered why you hated the so much

    I just see it as something which needs to stop. It is without question to the benefit of the people of Gaza that it stops as their life is hell. Because of this I believe that a peace deal can be done.

    The Gazian people would choose a just peace over Hamas but joining Hamas over what is hapening now, in general.

    Israel's main stated stumbling block appears to be fear. Nothing can get changed.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    What is hard to understand

    If the explosives were being placed on the Palestinain/Gaza side of the boarder then no breach occurred by the Palestinians and crossing the boarder by the Israeli's was wrong. Which means Hamas fighting against them was more then justified

    If the explosives were being placed on the Israeli side then the crossing of the boarder by the Israeli forces to catch/kill the people placing the explosives was justified
    They have breached the border.
    They've placed explosives on the Palestinian side and set them off.
    That's how you breach a ****ing border.

    I don't know even how to begin and explain to you that crossing the border into the Israeli side, placing the explosives on the Israeli side and setting them off in order to breach the border and cross into the Israeli side again is the most retarded thing that one could do.

    What next?
    You'll complain that launching rockets into the Israeli side is alright because they've launched those rockets from their own yards?
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 03-27-10 at 11:29 AM.
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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Placing explosives or mines on your side of the boarder is perfectly fine
    Yes, but not when the intent is to blow up a breach in a wall the other side built. Clearly the intent was to breach it, naturally, when Israeli soldiers saw the terrorists try blow it up, the thought process wasn't "oh OK, its on there side of the boarder", the thought process was most probably more like "they are trying to do something fishy", so engaging them was a perfectly fine response. It was pure provocation.

    Now as for an agressive act. Blockades are considered an act of war, so each day Israel enforce it it is creating an agressive act
    Attempting to blow it up, equally, is an act of war and an aggressive act.
    Last edited by MetalGear; 03-27-10 at 11:45 AM.

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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    East Jerusalem has been falsely labeled as occupied. That is an ill informed recognition. Israel and its people have always seen East Jerusalem as Israel no less than they see Tel Aviv as part of Israel. They live there like its Tel Aviv, build there like its Tel Aviv, and work there like its Tel Aviv.

    Unfortunately the same thing is going on in North Cyprus at the moment (only the world believe Turkey's presence there is an occupation rather than the existance of the de-facto Turkish state). However, if the UN or the US where to turn around and tell me to "stop building there", i would be absolutely enraged.

    God knows how Israeli's feel. Good on Netanyahu. I support you fully.

  9. #29
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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    They have breached the border.
    They've placed explosives on the Palestinian side and set them off.
    That's how you breach a ****ing border.

    I don't know even how to begin and explain to you that crossing the border into the Israeli side, placing the explosives on the Israeli side and setting them off in order to breach the border and cross into the Israeli side again is the most retarded thing that one could do.

    What next?
    You'll complain that launching rockets into the Israeli side is alright because they've launched those rockets from their own yards?
    The article does not mention anything about the explosives being set off.

    And where does it say the Palestinians crossed into Israel?

    And I already adressed the rocket fire did I not
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    Re: Israeli tanks 'enter Gaza' after deadly clashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The article does not mention anything about the explosives being set off.

    And where does it say the Palestinians crossed into Israel?

    And I already adressed the rocket fire did I not
    Even if the article didn't(and it did happen), your assumption that the militants need to cross the border and place the explosives on the Israeli side before the Israeli defense forces can react is simply ridiculous and has no logic to back it.


    The incident took place within the Strip's territory. An IDF force entered Strip when it identified Palestinians planting explosive devices near the border fence. An explosion took place and heavy clashes ensued. Two Palestinian gunmen were killed in the incident.
    IDF officer, soldier killed in Gaza clashes - Israel News, Ynetnews
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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