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Thread: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The problem is that the citizens vote for services without the taxes. They don't seem to understand that railroads don't materialize out of thin air without somebody putting up money first. Its bad enough that moronic large spending projects get passed in the first place, its worse that we don't pay for them. The only projects on the ballot I have ever seen even think about needed revenue mortgage the future with yet more bonds.
    Can anyone say Greece.

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    A 12.4 percent unemployment rate doesn't help.

    I agree with you that increased city services should require additional taxes, provided that the citizens vote for these taxes and services.
    It sounds to me like the California state constitution needs to be revised so that any government-provided service passed can only do so if a measure to pay for that service passes as well.

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    I think we need to repeal the three progressive-led changes to the California constitution at the beginning of the twentieth century when the Southern Pacific Railroad basically ran the state: direct democracy through amendments, resolutions and recalls. I don't think they achieved their purpose then, and I am certain they are not achieving their purpose now.

    Second I would repeal the super majority requirement to pass a state budget. California is just about ungovernable at this point.

    Third, I would repeal term limits on state office holders. We have lost all our experienced politicians who might have had the good sense needed to get the state through these hard times without so much pointless conflict.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Third, I would repeal term limits on state office holders. We have lost all our experienced politicians who might have had the good sense needed to get the state through these hard times without so much pointless conflict.
    When Reagan left the governor's office, the slow death of California began.

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Can anyone say Greece.
    The hell I can.
    I can even say it backwards.... Eceerg.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    I think we need to repeal the three progressive-led changes to the California constitution at the beginning of the twentieth century when the Southern Pacific Railroad basically ran the state: direct democracy through amendments, resolutions and recalls. I don't think they achieved their purpose then, and I am certain they are not achieving their purpose now.

    Second I would repeal the super majority requirement to pass a state budget. California is just about ungovernable at this point.

    Third, I would repeal term limits on state office holders. We have lost all our experienced politicians who might have had the good sense needed to get the state through these hard times without so much pointless conflict.
    Hoe do you get past a great underlying problem for Califirnia and the U.S. overall. That is the elctorate's refusal to vote for people who are willing to make the kinds of changes you propose.

    California is just in the limelight because it is our biggest state and has a lot of problems. The problems are not that much different than they have in Ill. or NY.

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I think a big part of the problem is the way their ballot measures work. Put to vote, people are all for increasing services, but rarely in favor of raising taxes to pay for them. "More parks in X city? Sure, sounds great! Free garbage pickup in all cities? Awesome! Double hiring of police force? Woohoo! INCREASE TAXES .05%? OVER MY DEAD BODY!"

    They vote for all sorts of fun things but never a way for paying for them. Good argument against direct democracy
    It's what happens when you create an entire welfare class, then let them for themselves more entitlements.

    The welfare class votes in the fun things, then when the working class is asked to pay for it, they vote no. Plain ole common sense tells us that won't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Hoe do you get past a great underlying problem for Califirnia and the U.S. overall. That is the elctorate's refusal to vote for people who are willing to make the kinds of changes you propose.

    California is just in the limelight because it is our biggest state and has a lot of problems. The problems are not that much different than they have in Ill. or NY.
    Bob Schieffer had a good suggestion on Face the Nation this morning: eliminate party primaries and hold an open election to select the two best candidates and vote on them in November. By doing so, we would eliminate the ability of the radicals on the right and the left to control which candidates we select our representatives from. It's a good idea and I think we'll obtain people prepared to work together to solve our state's problems.
    Last edited by Chappy; 03-29-10 at 12:13 AM.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

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    Re: Personal income falls 2.5% in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Bob Schieffer had a good suggestion on Face the Nation this morning: eliminate party primaries and hold an open election to select the two best candidates and vote on them in November. By doing so, we would eliminate the ability of the radicals on the right and the left to control which candidates we select our representatives from. It's a good idea and I think we'll obtain people prepared to work together to solve our state's problems.
    interesting thought. We have to get past the radicals who have a stranglehold on both parties.

    I really think it is going to take a person who is very rich, articulate, proven accomplishments to form a viable third party. One that both parties have to recon with. Sort of like the Perot candidancy before things fell apart at the end.

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