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Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

Catz Part Deux

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Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign - JSOnline

The Vatican on Thursday defended its decision not to defrock a Wisconsin priest accused of sexually assaulting as many as 200 deaf boys from the 1950s to the 1970s and denounced what it called a "despicable" attempt to smear Pope Benedict XVI and his aides.

But Wisconsin advocates for victims of clergy sex abuse suggested the Vatican's handling of the case involving Father Lawrence Murphy - and revelations on similar cases in Europe - provide evidence of an institutional coverup that spanned decades and continents.

"We are finally able to get this where we believe it belongs, and that's at the Vatican's doorstep," Mark Salmon of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests said at a Thursday morning news conference outside the Archdiocese of Milwaukee's headquarters.

Murphy is believed to have molested as many as 200 deaf boys in his 25 years at St. John's School for the Deaf in St. Francis, luring many of his victims through the confessional.

According to documents obtained as part of a civil lawsuit against the Milwaukee Archdiocese, two Wisconsin bishops including then-Archbishop Rembert Weakland urged the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - led by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI - to allow them to conduct a church trial of Murphy, who had moved to the Superior Diocese and was continuing in ministry.
...

Ratzinger's deputy at the Congregation ruled that the charges were too old and that Murphy, then ailing and elderly, should instead repent and be restricted from celebrating Mass outside of his diocese.

That deputy, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, now the Vatican's secretary of state, ordered the church trial halted after Murphy wrote Ratzinger saying he was ill and infirm, and "simply want to live out the time that I have left in the dignity of my priesthood."


Reading the stories of the boys who were abused is horrifying:

JS Online: Shared secrets reveal much suffering in silence

What is the Catholic hierarchy concerned about? Clearly, not the victims who suffered in silence and shame.
 
I am a little tired of the media-orchestrated smear campaign against the Church. Yes, there are tragedies and I pray for the victims as well as for the priests who committed them. However, the overwhelming majority of those in the church, from high clergy officials to laypeople are good, honest, hardworking, faithful people who try to live out the values of our faith on a daily basis as best we know how. None of this invaldiates the basic truths taught by the Church for nearly two thousand years. Are there some bad apples? Of course. It is, after all, the world's largest organization. However, the wealth of good that the Church has done mush be considered.
 
So the church SHOULD be taking drastic action against the Priests (and others) who perpetrated these crimes in the guise of being of good faith - and IN the church itself. The church should NOT be turning against anyone else but their own.

Their own are the reason why they're in this hot water - NOT TO FORGET that they, themselves, didn't do much of ANYTHING in reprisal or punishment when these things came to light.

The church itself is to blame for all it's own damn problems - no one else. The catholic church (meaning - the leaders and orchestrators) are the reason for their own problems, NOT the attendants and NOT the innocent people who were abused and wronged.

They, right now, aren't acting very goodly, kind or forgiving as they are suppose to be.
Gee - hypocrites much?
 
None of this invaldiates the basic truths taught by the Church for nearly two thousand years. Are there some bad apples? Of course. It is, after all, the world's largest organization. However, the wealth of good that the Church has done mush be considered.

I call bull****. No one has offered up this argument. Your post represents a strawman.

What this story DOES potentially invalidate, however, is Pope Benedict's moral authority to lead the Catholic Church. When he knowingly covered up hundred of incidents where priests sexually assaulted children, with victims numbering in the thousands, to protect the reputation of the church, he invalidated his ability to effectively lead the organization and/or compromised the church's ability to transmit religious faith.

Anyone who wants to plead Benedicts' case and explain how Benedict is able to provide spiritual leadership to millions of people after covering up thousands of instances of victimization of innocent children, please feel free.

I'll let Jesus Christ speak for me on this one:

Matthew 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Exactly how do you believe that Benedict's "leadership," as it were, can recover from the fact that he covered up thousands of felony acts committed against vulnerable children?
 
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It makes me sad to see the Church like this. Growing up in at a Catholic school I always had great respect for the Church and Pope John Paul II. Seeing how things are handled nowadays makes me upset and lowers the respect I had for the Church. Not Pope John Paul II though, I still believe he was a great man in life.
 
Exactly how do you believe that Benedict's "leadership," as it were, can recover from the fact that he covered up thousands of felony acts committed against vulnerable children?

ALLEGEDLY covered up. I have yet to see any convincing evidence in either English or French that he was actually involved in any kind of cover up. Only accusations and allegations. Nothing more.
 
I am a little tired of the media-orchestrated smear campaign against the Church. Yes, there are tragedies and I pray for the victims as well as for the priests who committed them. However, the overwhelming majority of those in the church, from high clergy officials to laypeople are good, honest, hardworking, faithful people who try to live out the values of our faith on a daily basis as best we know how. None of this invaldiates the basic truths taught by the Church for nearly two thousand years. Are there some bad apples? Of course. It is, after all, the world's largest organization. However, the wealth of good that the Church has done mush be considered.

No one said that the majority of people in Church or of The Church were other than "good, honest, hardworking, faithful people ". Yet when we all know that bad things were done to children by bad priests and then bishops and cardinals did a bad thing - coverd it up it has to come to light. How can the very leaders of the CVhurch who extolled all of us lemming Catholics to attaend church, go to confession and be "moral" were thmselves immoral by covering up the horrific sins of thjose perverts known as gay priests.

The leaders of the Church need to practice what they preach to us - they need to confess their own failings and the failings of the church and the leaders of the Church. They need to come clean. They need to live by what it says in the Bible - the truth shall set you free. Well bishop boys, arch bishops, cardinals tell the truth. Purge the Church of it's perverts and if you failed and if you covered up the sins of a pervert priests you need to resign- resign now and then GO TO HELL that is where those who hurt children or cover up for filthy disgusting pervert priests belong !!!
 
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ALLEGEDLY covered up. I have yet to see any convincing evidence in either English or French that he was actually involved in any kind of cover up. Only accusations and allegations. Nothing more.

Pope Arnold very likely was not personnaly involved in the coverup but there sure as hell was a coverup and amount of lies will make the truth go away.
 
It makes me sad to see the Church like this. Growing up in at a Catholic school I always had great respect for the Church and Pope John Paul II. Seeing how things are handled nowadays makes me upset and lowers the respect I had for the Church. Not Pope John Paul II though, I still believe he was a great man in life.

WE WILL NOT SEE AOTHER POPE LIKE HIM IN 2000 years. YET YOU KNOW EVEN HE KNEW THAT THERE WERE PERVERTS IN THE RANKS OF THE PRIESTS !!
 
I am a little tired of the media-orchestrated smear campaign against the Church. Yes, there are tragedies and I pray for the victims as well as for the priests who committed them. However, the overwhelming majority of those in the church, from high clergy officials to laypeople are good, honest, hardworking, faithful people who try to live out the values of our faith on a daily basis as best we know how. None of this invaldiates the basic truths taught by the Church for nearly two thousand years. Are there some bad apples? Of course. It is, after all, the world's largest organization. However, the wealth of good that the Church has done mush be considered.

The media is just telling the truth!! Are you denying that there were and most likley are pervert priests who were protected by bishops arch bishops and cardinals ??? How can you say that the media is orchestrating what we all know happened - pervert priests molested chidren !!!! Those perverts and those who covered it up must GO TO HELL !!
 
The media is just telling the truth!! Are you denying that there were and most likley are pervert priests who were protected by bishops arch bishops and cardinals ??? How can you say that the media is orchestrating what we all know happened - pervert priests molested chidren !!!! Those perverts and those who covered it up must GO TO HELL !!

I agree that priests involved will face judgement. It is not for you or I to decide if they will go to hell or not, but they will definately face judgement. To whom much is given, much is expected...

However, there are media outlets who are reporting as fact that Cardinal Ratzinger (the current pope) knew the extent and was involved in the cover-up. There is absolutely no evidence of this, but it has been reported on both radio and TV as truth. That is wrong.
 
I agree that priests involved will face judgement. It is not for you or I to decide if they will go to hell or not, but they will definately face judgement. To whom much is given, much is expected...

However, there are media outlets who are reporting as fact that Cardinal Ratzinger (the current pope) knew the extent and was involved in the cover-up. There is absolutely no evidence of this, but it has been reported on both radio and TV as truth. That is wrong.

If media outlets are not reporting the truth then they need to be confronted. No you nor I can not "decide " who goes to hell but I sure as hell can have an opinion as to who need to go to hell and pervert priests and their friends need to go to hell.
 
If media outlets are not reporting the truth then they need to be confronted. No you nor I can not "decide " who goes to hell but I sure as hell can have an opinion as to who need to go to hell and pervert priests and their friends need to go to hell.

And your opinion of who needs to go to hell is completely irrelevant. I love how non-Catholics are in such a rush to send people to hell. God is Love, remember?
 
And your opinion of who needs to go to hell is completely irrelevant. I love how non-Catholics are in such a rush to send people to hell. God is Love, remember?

Who are these non Catholics who are in rush to send people to hell ??
 
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However, there are media outlets who are reporting as fact that Cardinal Ratzinger (the current pope) knew the extent and was involved in the cover-up. There is absolutely no evidence of this, but it has been reported on both radio and TV as truth. That is wrong.

You don't have to read too many articles to realize that Ratzinger HAD TO HAVE KNOWN. But, whatever helps you sleep at night.

From the National Catholic Reporter (Credibility gap: Pope needs to answer questions | National Catholic Reporter)

The Holy Father needs to directly answer questions, in a credible forum, about his role -- as archbishop of Munich (1977-82), as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (1982-2005), and as pope (2005-present) -- in the mismanagement of the clergy sex abuse crisis.

We urge this not primarily as journalists seeking a story, but as Catholics who appreciate that extraordinary circumstances require an extraordinary response. Nothing less than a full, personal and public accounting will begin to address the crisis that is engulfing the worldwide church. It is that serious.
To date, as revelations about administrative actions resulting in the shifting of clergy abusers from parish to parish emerge throughout Europe, Pope Benedict XVI's personal response has been limited to a letter to the Irish church. Such epistles are customary and necessary, but insufficient.

With the further revelations March 26 by The New York Times that memos and meeting minutes exist showing that Benedict had to be at least minimally informed that an abuser priest was coming into the archdiocese of Munich and that he further had been assigned without restrictions to pastoral duties, it becomes even more difficult to reconcile the strong language of the pope in his letter to Irish bishops and his own conduct while head of a major see.

he Holy Father needs to directly answer questions, in a credible forum, about his role -- as archbishop of Munich (1977-82), as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (1982-2005), and as pope (2005-present) -- in the mismanagement of the clergy sex abuse crisis.

We urge this not primarily as journalists seeking a story, but as Catholics who appreciate that extraordinary circumstances require an extraordinary response. Nothing less than a full, personal and public accounting will begin to address the crisis that is engulfing the worldwide church. It is that serious.
To date, as revelations about administrative actions resulting in the shifting of clergy abusers from parish to parish emerge throughout Europe, Pope Benedict XVI's personal response has been limited to a letter to the Irish church. Such epistles are customary and necessary, but insufficient.

....The focus now is on Benedict. What did he know? When did he know it? How did he act once he knew?

The questions arise not only about his conduct in Munich, but also, based also as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. A March 25 Times story, citing information from bishops in the United States, reported that the Vatican had failed to take action against a priest accused of molesting as many as 200 deaf children while working at a school from 1950 to 1974.

Correspondence reportedly obtained by the paper showed requests for the defrocking of the priest, Fr. Lawrence Murphy, going directly from U.S. bishops to Ratzinger, then head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, now the Vatican secretary of state. No action was taken against Murphy.


..We now face the largest institutional crisis in centhuries, possibly in church history. How this crisis is handled by Benedict, what he says and does, how he responds and what remedies he seeks, will likely determine the future health of our church for decades, if not centuries, to come.
It is time, past time really, for direct answers to difficult questions. It is time to tell the truth

Now, you may be some opus dei-like defender of the Catholic faith, but get your facts straight.
 
You don't have to read too many articles to realize that Ratzinger HAD TO HAVE KNOWN. But, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Correspondence reportedly obtained by the paper showed requests for the defrocking of the priest, Fr. Lawrence Murphy, going directly from U.S. bishops to Ratzinger, then head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, now the Vatican secretary of state. No action was taken against Murphy.

We don't know what he did know and what he didn't. However, it is clear that there are people out there with an agenda against the Church are in a rush to judgement. Does your source explain WHY Fr. Murthy wasn't defrocked? I didn't think so...
 
Look at post #11 -- or are you Catholic?

Neither post 11 or any other post indicates whether or not I am a CATHOLIC or not !! I am but what does that have to do with this argument ? In fact that is why I am so angry about all of this because it is embarrassing and the pervert priests and those who looked the other way ruuined the staus of the Catholic church.
 
Neither post 11 or any other post indicates whether or not I am a CATHOLIC or not !! I am but what does that have to do with this argument ? In fact that is why I am so angry about all of this because it is embarrassing and the pervert priests and those who looked the other way ruuined the staus of the Catholic church.

And in post #11, you indicate that they should go to hell. Why are you in such a rush to send them to hell? My experience with Protestants, in particular, is on in which they are in such a rush to send people to hell that they completely contradict their mantra that God is Love ... something that, if true, (which it is) means that he would do all in His power to help us go to heaven, not look for an excuse to send us all to hell...
 
We don't know what he did know and what he didn't. However, it is clear that there are people out there with an agenda against the Church are in a rush to judgement. Does your source explain WHY Fr. Murthy wasn't defrocked? I didn't think so...

It does not matter why the so called :Fr" was not defrocked the fact that he was not is an absolute matter of proof that someone looked the other way and /or faled to take action against a pervert priest.

There is no agdenda against the Church. There is only a need to get to the truth and to punish all of those who are guilty and still alive.
 
It does not matter why the so called :Fr" was not defrocked the fact that he was not is an absolute matter of proof that someone looked the other way and /or faled to take action against a pervert priest.

There is no agdenda against the Church. There is only a need to get to the truth and to punish all of those who are guilty and still alive.

Or, perhaps action was taken and you simply don't beleive it was the correct action. Just because you don't approve of an action taken doesn't mean there wasn't one.

In such cases, the Code of Canon Law does not envision automatic penalties, but recommends that a judgment be made not excluding even the greatest ecclesiastical penalty of dismissal from the clerical state (cf. Canon 1395, no. 2). In light of the facts that Father Murphy was elderly and in very poor health, and that he was living in seclusion and no allegations of abuse had been reported in over 20 years, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith suggested that the Archbishop of Milwaukee give consideration to addressing the situation by, for example, restricting Father Murphy's public ministry and requiring that Father Murphy accept full responsibility for the gravity of his acts. Father Murphy died approximately four months later, without further incident.

ZENIT - Vatican Statement on the “Murphy Case”
 
And in post #11, you indicate that they should go to hell. Why are you in such a rush to send them to hell? My experience with Protestants, in particular, is on in which they are in such a rush to send people to hell that they completely contradict their mantra that God is Love ... something that, if true, (which it is) means that he would do all in His power to help us go to heaven, not look for an excuse to send us all to hell...

You should not base your judgement as to whether someone is or is not a Catholic on how someone believes pervert priests should be treated. I am am livid over the fact that there were pervert priests allowed to remane priests, that they were protected and allowed to continue their terrorism of children, and that they are very likely in the priesthood today.

My viceral revultion for these perverts is compounded by the fact that I like many Catholics and former Catholics were betrayed not only by these perverts, but by our parish priests, bishops, arch bishops, cardinals and very possibly Popes themselves. These priests and higherarchy not only betrayed us,but most importenlt the children, the Church, our religion, and very likely God himself.

Of course we do not have the power to punish these monsters in the eternal sphere but we have the right to punish them in the human sphere and the right to recomend that they be punished in eternity.

We were given the feeedom to think for ourselves by God, and by God I am thinking for myself. And yes I believe that these perverts need to burn in hell for an eternity.
 
Or, perhaps action was taken and you simply don't beleive it was the correct action. Just because you don't approve of an action taken doesn't mean there wasn't one.



ZENIT - Vatican Statement on the “Murphy Case”

I understand that one of the actions taken was to finally separate that pervert from pastoral type activities to remove him from potential victims but that did not occur until a long time of him having the opportunity of contact.
Ialso understand that it was known that he was molesting kids but nothing was done until fairly late in his life.

I do have a right of opinion as to he type of action that was taken. The Curch hierarchy of course needed to first of all stop the perverts from committing thier crimes but they also should have been punished for thie prior crimes.
 
I understand that one of the actions taken was to finally separate that pervert from pastoral type activities to remove him from potential victims but that did not occur until a long time of him having the opportunity of contact.
Ialso understand that it was known that he was molesting kids but nothing was done until fairly late in his life.

I do have a right of opinion as to he type of action that was taken. The Curch hierarchy of course needed to first of all stop the perverts from committing thier crimes but they also should have been punished for thie prior crimes.

But to claim that nothing was done is simply NOT accurate.

Also, apparently, this was not brought to the attention of officials in the Vatican until later. What we also do not know, and almost certainly will NEVER know, is the state of contrition of Fr. Murphy. We will not EVER know what was said in the Confessional by Fr. Murphy because that is not for us to know. Did he do his penance? The article says that he was not involved in such incidents for twenty years and that this fact and his age were mitigating factors.

You might think he deserves to go to hell, and that is fine. However, that is not for me or you to decide. He may have shown contrition in the Confessional and later actions. It does NOT excuse the behavior. His own behavior in the Confessional as a Confessor was dispicable. He most certainly has a LOT to answer for, there is NO doubt about that. However, once again, to say nothing was done is a gross misstatement of fact.
 
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