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Thread: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Actually, the Catholic Church HAS made reforms. All of these abuse allegations are PRE-reforms.
    What the church hasn't reformed is openly addressing the allegations instead of attacking the victims. They are currently in full-on CYA mode, and spinning it as if the victims are at fault here for making them look bad.

    Cheese and rice. At least TRY to be objective.

    What they are currently doing is not only causing further harm to the victims, but is dishonest and makes them look even guiltier.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am a little tired of the media-orchestrated smear campaign against the Church.
    Christian persecution complex for the win...

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am not arguing that this priest did something acceptable. It was disgusting. I am only saying two things.

    1. It is up to God, not to us to determine his ultimate fate.
    2. The Vatican did nothing wrong in handling his case. They didn't find out until decades later when the local authorities had already handled it within Canon Law.
    Point 1 of course I accept.

    Point 2 from what I read his ministry was restricted.

    He should have been defrocked. Not put out of the church, but no longer a preist of the church. just an average joe in pew again.

    His crimes should have been reported to the local law authorities and handled via same legal process that all criminals go through.

    Moe

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    What the church hasn't reformed is openly addressing the allegations instead of attacking the victims. They are currently in full-on CYA mode, and spinning it as if the victims are at fault here for making them look bad.

    Cheese and rice. At least TRY to be objective.

    What they are currently doing is not only causing further harm to the victims, but is dishonest and makes them look even guiltier.
    That is truth. I now can compare in my head the catholic church a belief that ask that you confess your sins pay a penance and overcome them to Toyota a business.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    If you don't like what is happening within the Roman Catholic Church, then don't be a part of it. A person doesn't need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church in order to be a Christian. A person doesn't need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church in order to go to Heaven.
    The height of wisdom is to say, "I do not know." -Socrates

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Not necessarily. It depends upon the circumstances. If it is a rogue cop, I don't blame the entire police department for his/her actions.
    This wasn't one rogue Priest. It was thousands. Clearly there was a systemic problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But each diocese/archdiocese and national church operates semi-autonomously. I have seen nothing to suggest that the Vatican even knew about this particular case until WELL AFTER local ecclesiastical authorities dealt with it within the confines of Canon Law.
    The chain of command, and therefore responsibility, goes all the way back to the Vatican. Who gives the go ahead for the appointment of Bishops and Cardinals? This all has to do with the Church, no matter how much you may wish things were different.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am not "apologizing" for my faith. There is nothing to apologize for. I am merely attempting to set the record straight as best I understand it.
    I don't agree. It sounds like you are apologizing and rationalizing. How exactly do hundreds if not thousands of pedophiles make their way into the ranks of the Church, commit thousands of acts of molestation all around the world and in different regions of authority, only to have Catholics such as yourself turn around and claim that it was a problem of hierarchical communication? Please. I know you are smarter than that.

    There was plenty of willful concealment on all levels. It was an ugly truth that people wanted to avoid. I can understand that. Why would anyone want such filth being spoken of the institution of their faith? But you can't hide from the truth. It comes out eventually.

    The Vatican may have reforms in place now, but those reforms only came as a form of public relations damage control. I would hardly call it pro-active.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    THey were halted due to his advanced age AND the fact that the situation was already being taken care of by the proper Church authorities in the United States. The fact that reports show that from that time to the time the Vatican addressed it, there had been no further cases. No reason for a Canon Law case against him at that point -- if it were to be done, it should have been done earlier. Once again, people who don't know how the Church operates are condemning the Church.
    You fail to realize that Criminal Law is above Church Law.

    Quite honestly the way this particular Church operates is frankly disgusting.

    I do not condemn the Church, I do condemn those who seek to operate this particular Church for their own twisted salacious pleasures and to hell with anyone else.

    What this particular Church's leaders have done is to perpetuate child abuse in the name of Catholic religion.

    I find the present Holy Roman Catholic Church leaders to be as odious as Nazi's.
    Last edited by jujuman13; 03-27-10 at 05:16 PM.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    If soldiers break the law, do you not condemn the chain of command in the military? If police officers overstep their authority, do you not take issue with the police department? If members of the government conspire to take advantage of the people or are involved in scandal, do you not take issue with the government?

    The buck stops at the Vatican, and every person who committed these atrocious acts did so while bearing the emblems of the Church. There is plenty of evidence that there was willful concealment by the Church... whether you want to call it the American branch, or the Irish branch, or whatever... it's all the Church. These representatives of the Church were trusted by their communities. Not only was that trust violated, but it took a political and media firestorm to finally have any shred of reconciliation from Church officials.

    I understand your need to apologize for your faith, but it's not your faith that is on trial here; it is the bureaucracy of your Church that is. The Vatican's credibility is ruined in the eyes of many, and I don't feel sorry for it. The truth needs to win out no matter how painful it is, and I think that is something that God would also want.
    Actually "If soldiers break the law," you " condemn the chain of command in the military" if the chains of command knew about the soldiers breaaking the law and did nothing about it or if the upper links of that chain gave an order to break the law.

    In this case there appears to be a failure of some part of the Church's chain of Command to take appropriate action. Whether the CIC of the Church is directly complicent in the failure to arrest the behavior of the pervert priests remains to be seen.
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 03-28-10 at 07:06 PM.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I understand your need to apologize for your faith, but it's not your faith that is on trial here; it is the bureaucracy of your Church that is. The Vatican's credibility is ruined in the eyes of many, and I don't feel sorry for it. The truth needs to win out no matter how painful it is, and I think that is something that God would also want. .
    Orion, That paragraph of yours I quoted above has got to be one of the best I have seen written on this subgect in any thread. You have cut through the emotional responses that some of us have made and did a very credible job responding to this issue. Thanks.,,,,,
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyboy View Post
    If you don't like what is happening within the Roman Catholic Church, then don't be a part of it. A person doesn't need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church in order to be a Christian. A person doesn't need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church in order to go to Heaven.
    You are joking right? You mean there will be others there in heavan besides us Catholics ? We will have to share Heavan with Potestants, Jews, Orthodox Christians also ? Please tell me that Muslims will not be allowed into Heavan because if they are that will really ruin my day,......
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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