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Thread: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Profile: The Vatican's watchdog
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    BBC News - Profile: The Vatican's watchdog

    Quote from article(As the Vatican watchdog responsible for tackling sexual abuse by Roman Catholic clerics, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) faces serious questions about its work, particularly during the years when it was headed by the current Pope.
    Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as he was known before being elected Pope Benedict XVI, came to the office in 1981 and led it for nearly a quarter of a century.)

    He led this office for 25 years and apparently was unable to find priests who molested young children in all that time.

    Quote from article(In the Wisconsin case, the priest accused of abusing up to 200 pupils at a school for deaf children wrote directly to Cardinal Ratzinger, saying he had repented and asking to be left alone. No response has been found but Church proceedings against Fr Lawrence Murphy were halted. )

    No response found, BUT Church proceedings against this pedophile were halted.
    And why not? after all he had (so he said) repented. (shaking my head in disbelief).
    I believe the biggest problem is this Church believing it and it's members are above the law of the land.

    One might to some extent accept that this Pope received more than a grounding in immoral behaviour as a child in the Hitler Youth, but as he in his own words voluntarily left that particular organization, one could have supposed that he had a changed moral outlook, apparently not.

    Quote(In a recent article in the US National Catholic Reporter , Church affairs analyst John Allen argues that the CDF underwent a revolution in 2001 when Cardinal Ratzinger subjected all sexual abuse allegations against priests to the authority of his office. )
    Last edited by jujuman13; 03-27-10 at 02:12 AM.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Quote from article(In the Wisconsin case, the priest accused of abusing up to 200 pupils at a school for deaf children wrote directly to Cardinal Ratzinger, saying he had repented and asking to be left alone. No response has been found but Church proceedings against Fr Lawrence Murphy were halted. )

    No response found, BUT Church proceedings against this pedophile were halted.
    And why not? after all he had (so he said) repented. (shaking my head in disbelief).
    THey were halted due to his advanced age AND the fact that the situation was already being taken care of by the proper Church authorities in the United States. The fact that reports show that from that time to the time the Vatican addressed it, there had been no further cases. No reason for a Canon Law case against him at that point -- if it were to be done, it should have been done earlier. Once again, people who don't know how the Church operates are condemning the Church.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And your opinion of who needs to go to hell is completely irrelevant. I love how non-Catholics are in such a rush to send people to hell. God is Love, remember?
    Yes he is but if you will remember the gospel account of Jesus placing a child on his knee and saying that if anyone harmed a child that it would better for that person to have a mill stone tied to their neck and cast into the sea. This is just disgusting. The Church is accusing the victims while protecting the criminals.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    THey were halted due to his advanced age AND the fact that the situation was already being taken care of by the proper Church authorities in the United States. The fact that reports show that from that time to the time the Vatican addressed it, there had been no further cases. No reason for a Canon Law case against him at that point -- if it were to be done, it should have been done earlier. Once again, people who don't know how the Church operates are condemning the Church.
    If soldiers break the law, do you not condemn the chain of command in the military? If police officers overstep their authority, do you not take issue with the police department? If members of the government conspire to take advantage of the people or are involved in scandal, do you not take issue with the government?

    The buck stops at the Vatican, and every person who committed these atrocious acts did so while bearing the emblems of the Church. There is plenty of evidence that there was willful concealment by the Church... whether you want to call it the American branch, or the Irish branch, or whatever... it's all the Church. These representatives of the Church were trusted by their communities. Not only was that trust violated, but it took a political and media firestorm to finally have any shred of reconciliation from Church officials.

    I understand your need to apologize for your faith, but it's not your faith that is on trial here; it is the bureaucracy of your Church that is. The Vatican's credibility is ruined in the eyes of many, and I don't feel sorry for it. The truth needs to win out no matter how painful it is, and I think that is something that God would also want.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am a little tired of the media-orchestrated smear campaign against the Church. Yes, there are tragedies and I pray for the victims as well as for the priests who committed them. However, the overwhelming majority of those in the church, from high clergy officials to laypeople are good, honest, hardworking, faithful people who try to live out the values of our faith on a daily basis as best we know how. None of this invaldiates the basic truths taught by the Church for nearly two thousand years. Are there some bad apples? Of course. It is, after all, the world's largest organization. However, the wealth of good that the Church has done mush be considered.
    I see this problem in much the same way I see the problem of violent extremism within Islam. You may be a little tired of the way your religion is portrayed in the media, as I'm sure the vast majority of good, honest, hardworking, faithful Muslims are tired of the way the bad apples in their midst are giving them all a bad name. I'm going to ask you the question that they are constantly being asked: What are you and your religious leaders really doing to eradicate this problem? And if you are doing something, is it enough or should you be doing something more?

    And I'm sorry, but the wealth of good the Church has done is no excuse, nor should it be given any consideration whatsoever when dealing with those who abuse the innocent.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by moe View Post
    Yes he is but if you will remember the gospel account of Jesus placing a child on his knee and saying that if anyone harmed a child that it would better for that person to have a mill stone tied to their neck and cast into the sea. This is just disgusting. The Church is accusing the victims while protecting the criminals.

    Moe
    I am not arguing that this priest did something acceptable. It was disgusting. I am only saying two things.

    1. It is up to God, not to us to determine his ultimate fate.
    2. The Vatican did nothing wrong in handling his case. They didn't find out until decades later when the local authorities had already handled it within Canon Law.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    We don't know what he did know and what he didn't. However, it is clear that there are people out there with an agenda against the Church are in a rush to judgement. Does your source explain WHY Fr. Murthy wasn't defrocked? I didn't think so...
    He wasn't defrocked because he wrote directly to Ratzinger, explaining that he was ill and old, and asking to be allowed to continue to serve out his days as a priest.

    Poor old Father Murphy....

    It doesn't take much sense to tell you that whether child sexual abuse was an issue in the public eye, or not, that ANYONE with half a brain in their head knows it's wrong. And that people who do such things SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AROUND CHILDREN.

    Anymore excuses?

  8. #38
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    If soldiers break the law, do you not condemn the chain of command in the military? If police officers overstep their authority, do you not take issue with the police department? If members of the government conspire to take advantage of the people or are involved in scandal, do you not take issue with the government?
    Not necessarily. It depends upon the circumstances. If it is a rogue cop, I don't blame the entire police department for his/her actions.

    The buck stops at the Vatican, and every person who committed these atrocious acts did so while bearing the emblems of the Church. There is plenty of evidence that there was willful concealment by the Church... whether you want to call it the American branch, or the Irish branch, or whatever... it's all the Church. These representatives of the Church were trusted by their communities. Not only was that trust violated, but it took a political and media firestorm to finally have any shred of reconciliation from Church officials.
    But each diocese/archdiocese and national church operates semi-autonomously. I have seen nothing to suggest that the Vatican even knew about this particular case until WELL AFTER local ecclesiastical authorities dealt with it within the confines of Canon Law.

    I understand your need to apologize for your faith, but it's not your faith that is on trial here; it is the bureaucracy of your Church that is. The Vatican's credibility is ruined in the eyes of many, and I don't feel sorry for it. The truth needs to win out no matter how painful it is, and I think that is something that God would also want.
    I am not "apologizing" for my faith. There is nothing to apologize for. I am merely attempting to set the record straight as best I understand it.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I see this problem in much the same way I see the problem of violent extremism within Islam. You may be a little tired of the way your religion is portrayed in the media, as I'm sure the vast majority of good, honest, hardworking, faithful Muslims are tired of the way the bad apples in their midst are giving them all a bad name. I'm going to ask you the question that they are constantly being asked: What are you and your religious leaders really doing to eradicate this problem? And if you are doing something, is it enough or should you be doing something more?

    And I'm sorry, but the wealth of good the Church has done is no excuse, nor should it be given any consideration whatsoever when dealing with those who abuse the innocent.
    Actually, the Catholic Church HAS made reforms. All of these abuse allegations are PRE-reforms.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    He wasn't defrocked because he wrote directly to Ratzinger, explaining that he was ill and old, and asking to be allowed to continue to serve out his days as a priest.

    Poor old Father Murphy....

    It doesn't take much sense to tell you that whether child sexual abuse was an issue in the public eye, or not, that ANYONE with half a brain in their head knows it's wrong. And that people who do such things SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED AROUND CHILDREN.

    Anymore excuses?
    After twenty years of ZERO INCIDENTS!!! NONE!!! BEcause the local ecclesiastical authorities had ALREADY DEALT WITH THE PROBLEM!!!
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