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Thread: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

  1. #21
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    We don't know what he did know and what he didn't. However, it is clear that there are people out there with an agenda against the Church are in a rush to judgement. Does your source explain WHY Fr. Murthy wasn't defrocked? I didn't think so...
    It does not matter why the so called :Fr" was not defrocked the fact that he was not is an absolute matter of proof that someone looked the other way and /or faled to take action against a pervert priest.

    There is no agdenda against the Church. There is only a need to get to the truth and to punish all of those who are guilty and still alive.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    It does not matter why the so called :Fr" was not defrocked the fact that he was not is an absolute matter of proof that someone looked the other way and /or faled to take action against a pervert priest.

    There is no agdenda against the Church. There is only a need to get to the truth and to punish all of those who are guilty and still alive.
    Or, perhaps action was taken and you simply don't beleive it was the correct action. Just because you don't approve of an action taken doesn't mean there wasn't one.

    In such cases, the Code of Canon Law does not envision automatic penalties, but recommends that a judgment be made not excluding even the greatest ecclesiastical penalty of dismissal from the clerical state (cf. Canon 1395, no. 2). In light of the facts that Father Murphy was elderly and in very poor health, and that he was living in seclusion and no allegations of abuse had been reported in over 20 years, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith suggested that the Archbishop of Milwaukee give consideration to addressing the situation by, for example, restricting Father Murphy's public ministry and requiring that Father Murphy accept full responsibility for the gravity of his acts. Father Murphy died approximately four months later, without further incident.
    ZENIT - Vatican Statement on the “Murphy Case”
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And in post #11, you indicate that they should go to hell. Why are you in such a rush to send them to hell? My experience with Protestants, in particular, is on in which they are in such a rush to send people to hell that they completely contradict their mantra that God is Love ... something that, if true, (which it is) means that he would do all in His power to help us go to heaven, not look for an excuse to send us all to hell...
    You should not base your judgement as to whether someone is or is not a Catholic on how someone believes pervert priests should be treated. I am am livid over the fact that there were pervert priests allowed to remane priests, that they were protected and allowed to continue their terrorism of children, and that they are very likely in the priesthood today.

    My viceral revultion for these perverts is compounded by the fact that I like many Catholics and former Catholics were betrayed not only by these perverts, but by our parish priests, bishops, arch bishops, cardinals and very possibly Popes themselves. These priests and higherarchy not only betrayed us,but most importenlt the children, the Church, our religion, and very likely God himself.

    Of course we do not have the power to punish these monsters in the eternal sphere but we have the right to punish them in the human sphere and the right to recomend that they be punished in eternity.

    We were given the feeedom to think for ourselves by God, and by God I am thinking for myself. And yes I believe that these perverts need to burn in hell for an eternity.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Or, perhaps action was taken and you simply don't beleive it was the correct action. Just because you don't approve of an action taken doesn't mean there wasn't one.



    ZENIT - Vatican Statement on the “Murphy Case”
    I understand that one of the actions taken was to finally separate that pervert from pastoral type activities to remove him from potential victims but that did not occur until a long time of him having the opportunity of contact.
    Ialso understand that it was known that he was molesting kids but nothing was done until fairly late in his life.

    I do have a right of opinion as to he type of action that was taken. The Curch hierarchy of course needed to first of all stop the perverts from committing thier crimes but they also should have been punished for thie prior crimes.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    I understand that one of the actions taken was to finally separate that pervert from pastoral type activities to remove him from potential victims but that did not occur until a long time of him having the opportunity of contact.
    Ialso understand that it was known that he was molesting kids but nothing was done until fairly late in his life.

    I do have a right of opinion as to he type of action that was taken. The Curch hierarchy of course needed to first of all stop the perverts from committing thier crimes but they also should have been punished for thie prior crimes.
    But to claim that nothing was done is simply NOT accurate.

    Also, apparently, this was not brought to the attention of officials in the Vatican until later. What we also do not know, and almost certainly will NEVER know, is the state of contrition of Fr. Murphy. We will not EVER know what was said in the Confessional by Fr. Murphy because that is not for us to know. Did he do his penance? The article says that he was not involved in such incidents for twenty years and that this fact and his age were mitigating factors.

    You might think he deserves to go to hell, and that is fine. However, that is not for me or you to decide. He may have shown contrition in the Confessional and later actions. It does NOT excuse the behavior. His own behavior in the Confessional as a Confessor was dispicable. He most certainly has a LOT to answer for, there is NO doubt about that. However, once again, to say nothing was done is a gross misstatement of fact.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Look at this "and requiring that Father Murphy accept full responsibility for the gravity of his acts".

    The fact that he was fully responsibie for his actions is an absolute. His taking of that resposibility is not a factor. This guys was a monster and like all monsters it need to be destroyed.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    When all is said and done the extremely simple fact remains.

    Is this Pope responsible for what his minions do or does he (as seems to be the case) absolve himself from any responsibility.

    It seems to me that it is all about cover up and defer any attention from this Pope.
    Having said that, there also seems to be little to no recriminations by the Church itself against the Pedophiles who created the mess in the first place.

    It is as if they imagine that by throwing money at the victims that the crime will be forgotten.

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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    When all is said and done the extremely simple fact remains.

    Is this Pope responsible for what his minions do or does he (as seems to be the case) absolve himself from any responsibility.

    It seems to me that it is all about cover up and defer any attention from this Pope.
    Having said that, there also seems to be little to no recriminations by the Church itself against the Pedophiles who created the mess in the first place.

    It is as if they imagine that by throwing money at the victims that the crime will be forgotten.
    I share a lot of the same thinking that you have stated. This is about cover up. I am am not saying that any Pope knew of every case or that any Pope was complicent with any case. Yet it is logical that any and every Pope did know that there was a problem in the Church with pervert priests. I also beleive that the entire hierarchy knew this and the lower the mangement of the Church was in the hierarchy the more likely that not only knew about a case bbut that very likley were complicent with a cover up or they ignored a problem.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

  9. #29
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Look at this "and requiring that Father Murphy accept full responsibility for the gravity of his acts".

    The fact that he was fully responsibie for his actions is an absolute. His taking of that resposibility is not a factor. This guys was a monster and like all monsters it need to be destroyed.
    That is for God to decide, not you or I.
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    Re: Catholic Church accuses abuse victims of smear campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    When all is said and done the extremely simple fact remains.

    Is this Pope responsible for what his minions do or does he (as seems to be the case) absolve himself from any responsibility.

    It seems to me that it is all about cover up and defer any attention from this Pope.
    Having said that, there also seems to be little to no recriminations by the Church itself against the Pedophiles who created the mess in the first place.

    It is as if they imagine that by throwing money at the victims that the crime will be forgotten.
    These all took place before the reforms the Church introduced a few years ago. Were there problems? Yes. However, don't forget that the Church is ALSO in the business of forgiveness. Was the Fr. Murphy situation handled slowly? Apparently yes. However, it seems like it was handled by LOCAL authorities before it was ever known by the Vatican. National churches and individual dioceses and archdioceses are run relatively autonomously, so it is NOT a stretch of the imagination to think the Vatican did NOT know about Fr. Murphy until twenty years after the fact. The fact that reports indicate that there were no reports of problems from Fr. Murphy after the local Church authorities handled it shows that they perhaps DID the right thing within the confines of Canon Law.

    I am not defending his actions. However, I am also now going to do into a knee-jerk condemnation of the Church without actually trying to understand what is going on, unlike some people.
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