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Thread: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

  1. #121
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    So when American forces invaded Iraq, that was aggression? Not liberation?
    There were numerous UN resolutions that provided support for that invasion. You compare apples and oranges much?

    It's not known if that was his real name or if he was a real Count, but you cannot deny he didn't exist. He is in Christian, Spanish, and Muslim sources by that name and title and was a ruler in some region around the Strait of Gibraltar.
    Relevance being?

    Are you kidding? His entire army was filled with minority groups from Asia Minor who were banned from entering Constantinople for religious reasons.
    Relevance being?

    And were these lands previously a Christian majority? You had a problem with Islamic colonization, but not Christianity's? Hypocrisy at its worst.
    Not hypocrisy. The Levant became Christian now due to invasion, but to mostly to voluntary conversion in an empire that was once very hostile to the religion. It was only later that the Roman Empire became Christian and it was the then-Christian Roman Empire that the Arabs attacked.

    I guess by your definition, the invasion of the Aztec Empire by the Spaniards wasn't aggression either.

    And does that negate that it wasn't liberation? You like to bring definitions in:[/QUOTE]
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  2. #122
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    There were numerous UN resolutions that provided support for that invasion.
    What are you talking about. Tony Blair wanted and tried to get UN approval but was unsuccessful?


    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq war illegal, says Annan


    Iraq war was illegal and breached UN charter, says Annan | World news | The Guardian

    Wilmshurst, who was the only civil servant to quit over the Iraq war, is the first witness to reveal that Goldsmith's view as late as January 2003 was that a second UN resolution may be required for the invasion to be legal. She said she thought it was unprecedented for a prime minister to be consulted in this way.

    She told the inquiry panel, which is looking into the legality of the war, that she was shown this advice unofficially at the time. "His draft advice, his provisional view, was that a second resolution was needed, as I recall," she said.

    The lawyer, who told her superiors that an invasion without UN sanction would be a "crime of aggression"
    when she quit a few days before the invasion, said today that the way ministers handled the legal arguments over the war was "lamentable".

    Declassified documents released by the inquiry also show that Wood warned ministers three months before the invasion that it was not certain if military action would be legal.

    David Brummell, then a senior aide to the attorney general, also revealed that Lord Goldsmith warned both No 10 and Straw in November 2002 he was "pessimistic" that UN security council resolution 1441 could be used to justify military action without a second resolution.
    Lord Goldsmith changed legal view of Iraq war in two months, says adviser | UK news | guardian.co.uk


    The two lawyers also submitted written statements to the inquiry, in which they made their resevations about the invasion absolutely clear.

    "I considered that the use of force against Iraq in March 2003 was contrary to international law," Sir Michael wrote.

    "In my opinion, that use of force had not been authorised by the Security Council, and had no legal basis in international law."

    In her statement, Ms Wilmshurst added: "I regarded the invasion of Iraq as illegal, and I therefore did not feel able to continue in my post. I would have been required to support and maintain the Government’s position in international fora.

    She added: "Acting contrary to the [United Nations] Charter, as I perceived the Government to be doing, would have the consequence of damaging the Untied Kingdom’s reputation as a State committed to the rule of law in international relations and to the United Nations."
    Foreign Office lawyer says Iraq war was illegal - Times Online
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  3. #123
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    What are you talking about. Tony Blair wanted and tried to get UN approval but was unsuccessful?
    Read UN Security Council Resolution 667 and 678.
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Caught up? hardly. Islam has had 13 centuries to build up an insurmountable lead on the violence front.
    Absolutely Christianity has caught up.
    The endless wars, crusades, civil wars that had religion as a factor. Heck we can even go modern if you want with the Catholic church and its erm ... "indiscretions"

    Stop deluding yourself about your religion.
    It is as violent as mine however much spin you wish to put on it.
    The basis of your religion is on a man apparently "crucified" to his death. Lovely and that is supposed to represent forgiveness.

    I said kicked out of Europe. Yes, they are in Muslim countries due to Muslim aggression.
    That hardly matters anymore.
    It's in Muslim countries and it is going to stay there unless Christians wish to become aggressive and attempt to reclaim it.


    Because it is ILLEGAL to be a Christian in Saudi Arabia!
    It's illegal for Muslims to convert to Christianity.
    But those already Christians (businessmen who travel there or immigrants who move there for work) can be Christian. They just aren't allowed anywhere near the holy cities.


    And I have no problem with people choosing to be a Muslim. What I DO have a problem with is Muslim governments insisting on rights for Muslims in the West when rights are NOT granted to Christians in their own countries.
    What Muslim Government is insisting rights for Muslims in the West?

    So, Imams don't talk to non-Muslims about the Islamic faith? It may not be as overt as that done by some Christian groups, but it is there. BTW, I don't have a problem with missionizing by any religious group as long as they respect the rights of those they are missionizing to.
    No.
    Not unless the Non Muslim has come into the Mosque seeking information.
    It is not there, you cannot accept that.
    Christianity constantly needs to pull out the propaganda sheet about how Jesus is so loving and Christianity is all about forgiveness and whatever other lines are usually added because it is losing believers and people are leaving Churches.
    Islam does not and never will have that problem.

    Perhaps Western countries should forbid Islamic imams in response!
    Aw, because Christianity can't compete with Islam? Figured but sure, it's not going to stop it.
    Last edited by Laila; 04-02-10 at 06:24 AM.


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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Read UN Security Council Resolution 667 and 678.
    No, I have other things to do.

    The UN says it was unlawful. The UN is the final speaker on UN Law.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Lets not forget ALL the democrats voted for the iraq war

    Lets look at the end result...a mass murderer and his two mass murdering sons...who killed hundreds of thousands of their own people and tortured unknown numbers of their own...ARE GONE and iraq has a democratic society...with the right to VOTE who they want to lead them.
    Iraq is a huge success and the Iraqui' can than George Bush for that

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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
    Lets not forget ALL the democrats voted for the iraq war

    Lets look at the end result...a mass murderer and his two mass murdering sons...who killed hundreds of thousands of their own people and tortured unknown numbers of their own...ARE GONE and iraq has a democratic society...with the right to VOTE who they want to lead them.
    Iraq is a huge success and the Iraqui' can than George Bush for that
    Were Democrats like the Politicians of the UK possibly given wrong information.

    No one thinks Saddam was a good person but it is to do with International Law. Once that is given up it is a free for all.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  8. #128
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    No, I have other things to do.

    The UN says it was unlawful. The UN is the final speaker on UN Law.
    Actually, the International Court of Justice is the final speaker on international law, not the Secretary General. That would be like the President of the US being the final speaker of U.S. law.
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Were Democrats like the Politicians of the UK possibly given wrong information.

    No one thinks Saddam was a good person but it is to do with International Law. Once that is given up it is a free for all.
    And this was legal according to international law. UN Security Council resolutions 667 and 678 gave authorization for the use for force for those and ALL SUBSEQUENT RELEVANT resolutions.
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Absolutely Christianity has caught up.
    The endless wars, crusades, civil wars that had religion as a factor. Heck we can even go modern if you want with the Catholic church and its erm ... "indiscretions"
    The Crusades, including the Reconquista, were all in response to Islamic aggression. Islam also had religious wars. Are you familiar with the wars and massacres in the wars between the Safavid and Ottoman empires?

    Stop deluding yourself about your religion.
    I am not "deluding" myself about my religion. I never claimed that it was perfect. However, its spread does not even BEGIN to match the violence of the spread of Islam -- especially considering the violence conducted by Muslims against Christian lands.

    It is as violent as mine however much spin you wish to put on it.
    There is no basis in reality for that statement.

    The basis of your religion is on a man apparently "crucified" to his death. Lovely and that is supposed to represent forgiveness.
    It is supposed to represent forgiveness, but that was not violence committed by Christians. Islam's very foundation was violent. The Battle of Mecca ring a bell?

    It's in Muslim countries and it is going to stay there unless Christians wish to become aggressive and attempt to reclaim it.
    I would not advocate that, but you can't deny that it came under Islamic control through aggression. Ideally, all people would have free access to all sites, regardless of one's faith.

    It's illegal for Muslims to convert to Christianity.
    According to Islamic religious law. It ought not be the policy and law of the state, which it is in several Islamic countries.

    But those already Christians (businessmen who travel there or immigrants who move there for work) can be Christian. They just aren't allowed anywhere near the holy cities.
    But Saudi citizens in Saudi Arabia are NOT EVEN PERMITTED BY LAW to be any religion but Muslim. It is forbidden for Muslims in Malaysia to convert to any other faith, but it is ok for people to convert to Islam.

    What Muslim Government is insisting rights for Muslims in the West?
    The latest being the Libyan and others insisting on the right to build minerets in Switzerland.

    No.
    Not unless the Non Muslim has come into the Mosque seeking information.
    It is not there, you cannot accept that.
    It isn't as obvious as it is with Christianity, true. However, that is completely irrelevant as to the violence of the spread of Islam.

    Christianity constantly needs to pull out the propaganda sheet about how Jesus is so loving and Christianity is all about forgiveness and whatever other lines are usually added because it is losing believers and people are leaving Churches.

    Islam does not and never will have that problem.
    Because it is illegal in many Muslim countries to leave the faith.


    Aw, because Christianity can't compete with Islam? Figured but sure, it's not going to stop it.
    We can, and do, compete with Islam, thank you very much. And we can do it without the force of law and threatening to kill everyone around us and force people to submit to Sharia law.
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