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Thread: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Aggression against whom? As I have already noted, most of the initial expansion of Christianity was PEACEFUL. In fact, it was done in the face of great PERSECUTION from the Roman and Parthian empires.

    Now I am getting interested. I thought it was the Roman's who did the persecution of early Christians who were a very peaceful lot.

    Unable to cope with their growing popularity as people believed they must have something really good to put up with being fed to the lions and so on, I understood that the Roman's somehow or other managed to entice them into becoming a sort of part of the State - and that, I understood was the end of Christianity as a peaceful religion and the birth of the one which went off on the Crusades.

    You can blame the BBC for this impression.
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Liberation? Catholic Spain invaded by Muslims was liberation? The invasion of France? The invasion of Southeastern Europe? Aksum? North Africa? You are doing NOTHING to disprove the point that Islam has been on a war of aggression against Christianity since the 7th century.
    Again displaying ignorance of history? Do you know who participated in the Ummayad conquest of Spain? Does the name Count Julian of Ceuta mean anything to you? He provided all the ships that carried the Muslims into Europe. He helped the 7,000 man Muslim army defeat Roderic's 25,000 man army. He was the one who got most of Roderic's men to switch sides or desert. And while you gawk at why I say 'liberation', you still remain ignorant to the persecution of the Jews in the relevant regions. In 612, the Visigoths issued a royal decree enjoining all Jews to be baptized under penalty of banishment and confiscation of property. Under the Muslims, Jews experienced their golden age of Jewish culture in Al-Andalus.

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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner' - Times Online

    What a bumbling fool. Insulting one of our closest allies with such idiocy is really unbelievable.

    But considering the moronic capitulation to Russia and turning our back on Poland with absolutely no diplomatic gain this kind of adolescent diplomacy really isn't surprising anymore.

    Thank you President Obama for once again showing that experience actually does matter.
    If this is what Republicans criticize Obama for he can't be doing much wrong, but there is something we can all agree on... at least Bush isn't still the President.

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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Again displaying ignorance of history? Do you know who participated in the Ummayad conquest of Spain? Does the name Count Julian of Ceuta mean anything to you? He provided all the ships that carried the Muslims into Europe. He helped the 7,000 man Muslim army defeat Roderic's 25,000 man army. He was the one who got most of Roderic's men to switch sides or desert. And while you gawk at why I say 'liberation', you still remain ignorant to the persecution of the Jews in the relevant regions. In 612, the Visigoths issued a royal decree enjoining all Jews to be baptized under penalty of banishment and confiscation of property. Under the Muslims, Jews experienced their golden age of Jewish culture in Al-Andalus.
    So, majority Christian populations conquest by Muslims to you is liberation? You have a strange notion of liberation. It still doesn't change the fact that there was centuries of Islamic AGGRESSION against Christiandom.
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Still, there was FAR MORE violence in the spread of Islam than of Christianity on the whole.
    And once again despite this beginning of violence in Islam. Christianity did catch up and now has an equally violent past.
    A Christian has no moral ground to stand on criticising Islam's violent past when its own is as bloody.

    Because Christians kicked them out... TWICE!!!


    Despite this "kicking us out", isn't it amusing to see that many Christian historical sites which has religious significance lies in Muslim countries.


    Islamic mosques in Rome. How about Christian churches in Mecca?
    There are Muslims in Rome which drives the need for Mosques.
    Very little to no noticeable Christian population in Saudi Arabia.
    Why should a Church be built just to satisfy political correctness when there is no real need for them?

    So, it is ok for people to convert TO Islam, but not FROM Islam?
    I have no problem with Muslim converting out of Islam if that is what you are asking me.

    Due to the Great Commission. For a non-missionary religion, there seems to be a lot of missionizing going on. Note, I don't have a problem with it, but that it needs to work both ways. People can convert to Islam in Italy, but in Saudi Arabia, Malaysia and other Islamic countries, converting from Islam to Christianity is outlawed and can even result in a death sentence.
    What missionizing?
    I have never seen a Imam attempting to convert in London nor knock on peoples door, advertise Islam on billboards. I see all that and more for Christianity, not that I have a issue with it but Muslim as a majority do not actively seek to convert.

    It should but it doesn't.
    The law forbids missionaries from the west from coming in with the intention to convert. I don't agree with it but I do understand why they may forbid it.
    Last edited by Laila; 03-31-10 at 11:51 AM.


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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    And once again despite this beginning of violence in Islam. Christianity did catch up and now has an equally violent past.
    A Christian has no moral ground to stand on criticising Islam's violent past when its own is as bloody.
    Caught up? hardly. Islam has had 13 centuries to build up an insurmountable lead on the violence front.


    Despite this "kicking us out", isn't it amusing to see that many Christian historical sites which has religious significance lies in Muslim countries.
    I said kicked out of Europe. Yes, they are in Muslim countries due to Muslim aggression.

    There are Muslims in Rome which drives the need for Mosques.
    Very little to no noticeable Christian population in Saudi Arabia.
    Why should a Church be built just to satisfy political correctness when there is no real need for them?
    Because it is ILLEGAL to be a Christian in Saudi Arabia!

    I have no problem with Muslim converting out of Islam if that is what you are asking me.
    And I have no problem with people choosing to be a Muslim. What I DO have a problem with is Muslim governments insisting on rights for Muslims in the West when rights are NOT granted to Christians in their own countries.

    What missionizing?
    I have never seen a Imam attempting to convert in London nor knock on peoples door, advertise Islam on billboards. I see all that and more for Christianity, not that I have a issue with it but Muslim as a majority do not actively seek to convert.
    So, Imams don't talk to non-Muslims about the Islamic faith? It may not be as overt as that done by some Christian groups, but it is there. BTW, I don't have a problem with missionizing by any religious group as long as they respect the rights of those they are missionizing to.

    It should but it doesn't.
    The law forbids missionaries from the west from coming in with the intention to convert. I don't agree with it but I do understand why they may forbid it.
    Perhaps Western countries should forbid Islamic imams in response!
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    So, majority Christian populations conquest by Muslims to you is liberation? You have a strange notion of liberation. It still doesn't change the fact that there was centuries of Islamic AGGRESSION against Christiandom.
    And you have a strange notion of aggression. There wasn't exactly freedom in the Holy Lands during Christian rule. Muslims liberated the Levant of the oppressive rule of the Christian papacy.

    And again, you remain ignorant of history. You call it centuries of Islamic aggression, as if the Muslims conquests were never responded to. It's disingenuous and misleading. And while calling it aggression, you choose to ignore important aspects that helped the Muslims liberate these lands from Christians. These are important things like Count Julian (who I mentioned earlier) or people like Thomas the Slav and Bardas Skleros.

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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    And you have a strange notion of aggression. There wasn't exactly freedom in the Holy Lands during Christian rule. Muslims liberated the Levant of the oppressive rule of the Christian papacy.

    And again, you remain ignorant of history. You call it centuries of Islamic aggression, as if the Muslims conquests were never responded to. It's disingenuous and misleading. And while calling it aggression, you choose to ignore important aspects that helped the Muslims liberate these lands from Christians. These are important things like Count Julian (who I mentioned earlier) or people like Thomas the Slav and Bardas Skleros.
    By most people's definition of aggression, invading another state or empire is generally considered aggression. No matter how you spin it, you can't deny that the spread of Islam was due to aggression.

    aggression: the action of a state in violating by force the rights of another state, particularly its territorial rights; an unprovoked offensive, attack, invasion, or the like

    You like to quote "semi-historical" figures like Count Julian? It isn't even known if this person ever existed, or if he did, what his true name was or his role in history.

    Thomas the Slav was more interested in revolt because he was overlooked more than any desire to "liberate" anyone. He had no desire to aid in the spread of Islam as best as we know from the sketchy sources we have of his motives.

    Bardas Skleros formented rebellion due to his claims to the throne of the empire, not because he wanted to "liberate" anyone.

    Interesting that you call it "liberate" when Muslims took lands that were majority Christian and imposed Islamic law on them. That is liberation? Sounds like the definition of liberation the Chinese have in mind for the country I live in. Did the Muslims "liberate" Spain? Did they "liberate" the Aksum coast? Did they "liberate" Christian lands in Europe?

    Nothing you say negates the fact that the lands in question were majority Christian. Was there persecution? Sadly, yes. Does that negate the fact that the spread of Islam was a result of aggression? Of course not.
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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    monday: see obama slam doors in faces

    tuesday: see obama make demands

    wednesday: see obama say he didn't mean it

    thursday: see obama beg

    U.S. seeks 4-month Jerusalem building freeze: report

    pathetic

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    Re: Binyamin Netanyahu humiliated after Barack Obama 'dumped him for dinner'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    By most people's definition of aggression, invading another state or empire is generally considered aggression. No matter how you spin it, you can't deny that the spread of Islam was due to aggression.

    aggression: the action of a state in violating by force the rights of another state, particularly its territorial rights; an unprovoked offensive, attack, invasion, or the like
    So when American forces invaded Iraq, that was aggression? Not liberation?
    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You like to quote "semi-historical" figures like Count Julian? It isn't even known if this person ever existed, or if he did, what his true name was or his role in history.
    It's not known if that was his real name or if he was a real Count, but you cannot deny he didn't exist. He is in Christian, Spanish, and Muslim sources by that name and title and was a ruler in some region around the Strait of Gibraltar.
    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Thomas the Slav was more interested in revolt because he was overlooked more than any desire to "liberate" anyone. He had no desire to aid in the spread of Islam as best as we know from the sketchy sources we have of his motives.
    Are you kidding? His entire army was filled with minority groups from Asia Minor who were banned from entering Constantinople for religious reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Interesting that you call it "liberate" when Muslims took lands that were majority Christian and imposed Islamic law on them. That is liberation? Sounds like the definition of liberation the Chinese have in mind for the country I live in. Did the Muslims "liberate" Spain? Did they "liberate" the Aksum coast? Did they "liberate" Christian lands in Europe?
    And were these lands previously a Christian majority? You had a problem with Islamic colonization, but not Christianity's? Hypocrisy at its worst.
    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Nothing you say negates the fact that the lands in question were majority Christian. Was there persecution? Sadly, yes. Does that negate the fact that the spread of Islam was a result of aggression? Of course not.
    And does that negate that it wasn't liberation? You like to bring definitions in:

    Liberate | Define Liberate at Dictionary.com
    to free (a nation or area) from control by a foreign or oppressive government.

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