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Thread: Ga. governor to name special AG for health lawsuit

  1. #31
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    Re: Ga. governor to name special AG for health lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The mandate is completely optional. If you choose to get insurance, your taxes will be lower than they otherwise would be. If you choose not to, your taxes will be higher than they otherwise would be. It is that simple.
    Somebody help him out

  2. #32
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    Re: "I absolutely reject that notion!" -- Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Oh, I definitely get it. I just keep waiting for some kind person on the left to gently tap you on the shoulder so that you stop embarrassing yourself.
    Let's just see who wins in the courts. It seems the GA Attorney General does not think my argument is wrong.

    If they called it a "tax incentive" they would be laughed out of the room. No, they are going to call it a mandate because that's what it is. They are going to take a position opposite that of Obama's -- claiming that it is indeed a tax -- and a constitutional expenditure under the general welfare clause.
    Look at the bill. Here it is. http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

    There is once paragraph in the entire bill where the term "mandate" is used.

    (d) PARTICIPATION REQUIREMENT.—No grant shall
    10 be allowed under subsection (a) unless the Secretaries of
    11 Health and Human Services and Labor, in consultation
    12 with other appropriate agencies, jointly certify, as a part
    13 of any certification described in subsection (b), that each
    14 wellness program component of the qualified wellness pro-
    15 gram—
    16 (1) shall be available to all employees of the
    17 employer;
    18 (2) shall not mandate participation by employ-
    19 ees; and
    That section deals with participation requirements for company wellness programs. The only time the term "mandate" is used in the entire bill is where the bill states that a company cannot mandate participation in a company wellness program. In the bill, mandatory insurance is not called a mandate, it is treated as a tax issue.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 03-25-10 at 11:47 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: "I absolutely reject that notion!" -- Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Let's just see who wins in the courts. It seems the GA Attorney General does not think my argument is wrong.
    He agrees with you on the conclusion, not the argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    There is once paragraph in the entire bill where the term "mandate" is used.
    ...and if they outlawed pets we'd be left to conclude that dogs are perfectly legal because a word seach for "dog" yielded nothing.

  4. #34
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    Re: "I absolutely reject that notion!" -- Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    He agrees with you on the conclusion, not the argument.
    The argument in the bill is the mandate is enforced through the tax code. That is the argument. When this goes before the federal courts, they are not going to use Taylor's, the Debate Politics member with a flower avatar, argument. They are going to argue the text of the bill. The bill treats the mandate as a tax issue.

    For example, it would be unconstitutional for the federal government to mandate that you have kids and fine you or imprison you if you don't. It is perfectly constitutional for the federal government to encourage you to have kids in the tax code. It may well be unconstitutional for the federal government to mandate that you purchase insurance and fine you or imprison you don't. It is perfectly constitutional for the federal government to encourage you to purchase insurance in the tax code.

    If you don't have employer provided insurance, and you don't purchase insurance, then you won't go to jail or anything, you will just potentially pay higher taxes. Ultimately it is purely a tax issue from a legal perspective. It is pointless to argue this any further. We will just have to wait and see how it plays out in the courts. When they rule in favor of my argument you can always throw out the activist judges claim then.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 03-26-10 at 12:13 AM.
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    Re: Ga. governor to name special AG for health lawsuit

    To be honest with you two, the mandate isn't even enforceable.

    No one has to pay it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: "I absolutely reject that notion!" -- Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    For example, it would be unconstitutional for the federal government to mandate that you have kids and fine you or imprison you if you don't. It is perfectly constitutional for the federal government to encourage you to have kids in the tax code.
    Yes I see your position:
    Unconstitutional to mandate citizens to have kids under threat of fine or imprisonment,
    ...Unless of course you call that fine a tax, then it's completely legit.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    It is pointless to argue this any further.
    On that much we can agree.

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    Re: Ga. governor to name special AG for health lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    To be honest with you two, the mandate isn't even enforceable.

    No one has to pay it.
    That's the Wesley Snipes position.

  8. #38
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    Re: Ga. governor to name special AG for health lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That's the Wesley Snipes position.
    The language in the bill explicitly says that they can not do anything criminally and they can't put liens against you.

    It's unenforceable.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  9. #39
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    Re: "I absolutely reject that notion!" -- Barry

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Let's just see who wins in the courts. It seems the GA Attorney General does not think my argument is wrong.



    Look at the bill. Here it is. http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
    Thank you, for so patiently explaining the bill.
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    Re: Ga. governor to name special AG for health lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    So, when you don't get the answer you want, hire someone to give you that answer... With Tax-payer dollars.

    Nice.
    You included it in your OP, but I don't think you understand what "pro bono" means.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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