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Thread: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    This has been done. You have been shown and you simply lie when you say you haven't. I don't care what you call me because I am fully aware of your propensity for being dishonest. It means nothing to me when a liar calls me a liar.

    I don't want your apology. The apology of a liar is probably disingenuous anyway. It means even less than your word to me now.
    I think you've said all you need to say. Me too.

    Maybe someone else will rise to the challenge.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I think you've said all you need to say. Me too.

    Maybe someone else will rise to the challenge.
    One would hope because you certainly haven't.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Alright, found the link and the forum post.

    Second, I've gone in and read the section and I can see how it can be interrpited either way. It does set up a review board that oversee's insurance issues, setting minimums, and making determinations on what kind of treatment should be available. I can easily see how someone can see this role expanding and being similar to rationing, which could be considered a "death panel" in one of the ways they were typically talked about. At the same time I can see the way someone could read it as simply applying to insurance companies.
    You could interpret it that way but you'd be wrong. Unless we're changing the definition of that "death panel" to suit conservative partisan needs.

    That said, the "Death Panel" thing generally came up between two different things. One was a committee overseeing health care choices and being able to deny treatment or deny coverage or deny the types of insurance that are available, the other was something to do with the mandatory end of life care that has since been removed to my understanding.
    The end of life consultation was never mandatory and the committee would never have authority to deny treatment or coverage.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    First, Mister, you gotta understand one thing. No one is going to let you bait them, intentionally or unintentionally, into a fair use violation. Posting page 25 through page 42 of the Bill that Jallman keeps talking about in MULTIPLE posts to you would be a Fair Use violation.
    First of all, Jallman is claiming that he DID post the text. (He did not - he posted a small part of the text he said was before the text in question).

    Second, all government publications, including bills and laws, are public domain. There is no fair use violation by posting them.

    Jallman followed the rules, posted the beginning paragraph of the portion he was talking about, gave you specific pages, and told you to read the rest yourself.
    And I looked, every time. IT WASN'T THERE.

    Second, I've gone in and read the section and I can see how it can be interrpited either way. It does set up a review board that oversee's insurance issues, setting minimums, and making determinations on what kind of treatment should be available. I can easily see how someone can see this role expanding and being similar to rationing, which could be considered a "death panel" in one of the ways they were typically talked about. At the same time I can see the way someone could read it as simply applying to insurance companies.
    Please tell me where YOU saw it. Either give me a link, or a SECTION number (which is part of the text, and independent of page numbers, which can change) in the FINAL enacted bill.

    That said, the "Death Panel" thing generally came up between two different things. One was a committee overseeing health care choices and being able to deny treatment or deny coverage or deny the types of insurance that are available, the other was something to do with the mandatory end of life care that has since been removed to my understanding.
    It was the latter, and it was not "mandatory" - it simply specified that anyone who wants to talk to their doctor about end of life care ( a good idea for everyone) can get their doctor paid to do it. That's it.

    Trying to trump up "how many people think there are death panels" in the bill is a useless argument, and frankly one that could be equally countered by "How many people think they will get free health coverage automatically now that the bills passed".
    So if someone said they think all health is free now, would you think that's okay too? I would oppose that too.

    What's wrong with insisting on literal accuracy about something that's had so many lies and inaccuracies told about it for so long? Especially when so many people are so confused, and really do believe there are literally panels of doom that will kill you?

    It's not a "death panel." Don't call it one.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You could interpret it that way but you'd be wrong. Unless we're changing the definition of that "death panel" to suit conservative partisan needs.
    Perhaps you'd like to...I dunno...demonstrate how he's wrong?

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    It's not a "death panel." Don't call it one.
    It's a flippin' death panel. Sorry you find that so offensive but let's call a spade a spade.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Second, all government publications, including bills and laws, are public domain. There is no fair use violation by posting them.
    I'm not telling you as a lawyer, I'm telling you as a guy that's a mod on this board. Debate Politics Fair Use Rule (its found in the Rules thread) is that any outside source that you're posting should be about two or three paragraphs in length at most and then provide a link rather than posting entire articles or bills or other things. This is so threads aren't taken up with gigantic walls of quoted text beyond simply the legal ramifications of fair use.

    As to whether it'd be right if people thought they got free insurance now? No. Its not right people think there are LITERAL death panels in here. I'm saying trying to descredit the entire movement that dislikes this bill by pointing out that some believe something stupid is ridiculous because the same can be said for the other side.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm not telling you as a lawyer, I'm telling you as a guy that's a mod on this board. Debate Politics Fair Use Rule (its found in the Rules thread) is that any outside source that you're posting should be about two or three paragraphs in length at most and then provide a link rather than posting entire articles or bills or other things. This is so threads aren't taken up with gigantic walls of quoted text beyond simply the legal ramifications of fair use.
    Ah, I get it now.

    That's fine. I don't need the whole text. I asked him for the first few sentences so I could find it myself in the bill. He finally gave me the first few sentences preceding it - but what came after had nothing to do with "death panels" or anything that has been discussed as looking like one.

    As to whether it'd be right if people thought they got free insurance now? No. Its not right people think there are LITERAL death panels in here. I'm saying trying to descredit the entire movement that dislikes this bill by pointing out that some believe something stupid is ridiculous because the same can be said for the other side.
    Sure the same could be said about the other side. You want to exclude those people too? Fine.

    I believe people should just say what's actually in the bill. No exaggeration, no ridiculous scare tactics. What's wrong with that?

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's a flippin' death panel. Sorry you find that so offensive but let's call a spade a spade.
    Give it up.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Give it up.
    No. Because I'm right in my assessment. And you've yet to prove otherwise.

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