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Thread: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

  1. #331
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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I've still yet to see ANYONE actually provide Chuck Grassley's 1993 plan beyond comparison charts with vague "Yes" and "no" answers based on the interpritation of that particular site. And even when it has been shown there is far to little data available in them to see how it compares to what is in this plan, shows there are things that conservatives like that aren't anywhere in this plan, and has no sign of a number of the things conservatives disliked about this plan.

    Not to mention implying conservatives are hypocritical for not agreeing with it becasue it has similar "roots", which are questionable at best, implying those that like Football should like Golf because they both have a ball as a root to their sport.
    The point is that there are Republican ideas and similarities (as noted in the article below) that could have been built upon. Instead they pretended like there was no part of it they agreed with. It had to be scrapped before they would even consider it. Remember, Republicans are the minority party and therefore any legislation would never be exactly what they would like to see. Those are the consequences of losing an election.

    Here is the best I could do. I could not find his 1993 plan online.

    Republicans Spurn Once-Favored Health Mandate | 89.3 KPCC


    But Hatch's opposition is ironic, or some would say, politically motivated. The last time Congress debated a health overhaul, when Bill Clinton was president, Hatch and several other senators who now oppose the so-called individual mandate actually supported a bill that would have required it.

    In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. "It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time."

    The 'Free-Rider Effect'

    Pauly, a conservative health economist at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, says it wasn't just his idea. Back in the late 1980s when Democrats were pushing not just a requirement for employers to provide insurance, but also the possibility of a government-sponsored single-payer system "a group of economists and health policy people, market-oriented, sat down and said, 'Let's see if we can come up with a health reform proposal that would preserve a role for markets but would also achieve universal coverage.' "

    The idea of the individual mandate was about the only logical way to get there, Pauly says. That's because even with the most generous subsidies or enticements, "there would always be some Evel Knievels of health insurance, who would decline coverage even if the subsidies were very generous, and even if they could afford it, quote unquote, so if you really wanted to close the gap, that's the step you'd have to take."

    One reason the individual mandate appealed to conservatives is because it called for individual responsibility to address what economists call the "free-rider effect." That's the fact that if a person is in an accident or comes down with a dread disease, that person is going to get medical care, and someone is going to pay for it.

    "We called this responsible national health insurance," says Pauly. "There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn't be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens."

    Republican, Democratic Bills Strikingly Similar

    So while President Clinton was pushing for employers to cover their workers in his 1993 bill, John Chafee of Rhode Island, along with 20 other GOP senators and Rep. Bill Thomas of California, introduced legislation that instead featured an individual mandate. Four of those Republican co-sponsors Hatch, Charles Grassley of Iowa, Robert Bennett of Utah and Christopher Bond of Missouri remain in the Senate today.

    The GOP's 1993 measure included some features Republicans still want Democrats to consider, including damage award caps for medical malpractice lawsuits.

    But the summary of the Republican bill from the Clinton era and the Democratic bills that passed the House and Senate over the past few months are startlingly alike.

    Beyond the requirement that everyone have insurance, both call for purchasing pools and standardized insurance plans. Both call for a ban on insurers denying coverage or raising premiums because a person has been sick in the past. Both even call for increased federal research into the effectiveness of medical treatments something else that used to have strong bipartisan support, but that Republicans have been backing away from recently.

    'A Sad Testament'

    Nichols, of the New America Foundation, says he's depressed that so many issues that used to be part of the Republican health agenda are now being rejected by Republican leaders and most of the rank and file. "I think it's a sad testament to the state of relations among the parties that they've gotten to this point," he said.

    And how does economist Pauly feel about the GOP's retreat from the individual mandate they used to promote? "That's not something that makes me particularly happy," he says.

  2. #332
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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    OK, so yeah, things are going over your head again and I need to talk alot slower.
    Another typical cowardly ducking on the points made to you. Typical Redress.

    It will take longer to type what you ducked and ran away from than it will to respond to what you said.

    New segment for posts. Things that Redress ducked and ran away from:

    #1! *drum-roll*

    What did Massachusetts' newest senator run on? What was his platform?

    hint: Its about health care and his vote

    #2! What do the polls say about government in the state of Michigan?

    Sixty-two percent (62%) are angry at the current policies of the federal government, with 42% who are very angry.

    #3 What has been the primary topic and bill being decided upon this year?

    Hint: It rhymes with Stealth Fare

    And the final question ducked by Redress:

    Exactly how in your mind do you compute no impact from a bill that changes 1/6th of the economy and is in the minority for support not influence an election in any state right now?

    Same old Redress taking the coveted Monty Python Holy Grail approach to debate. Run away

    Senators, they vote on bills in congress. Governors, they do not. See this very large, unsubtle difference. I knew you could...
    Never once did I mention governors Redress. Are you simply incapable of actually reading the arguments presented to you or is this a genetic condition?

    The subject was the voters in Michigan and the reasons the democrats are behind in the polls. Please try to keep up.
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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    The point is that there are Republican ideas and similarities (as noted in the article below) that could have been built upon. Instead they pretended like there was no part of it they agreed with. It had to be scrapped before they would even consider it. Remember, Republicans are the minority party and therefore any legislation would never be exactly what they would like to see. Those are the consequences of losing an election.

    Here is the best I could do. I could not find his 1993 plan online.

    Republicans Spurn Once-Favored Health Mandate | 89.3 KPCC


    But Hatch's opposition is ironic, or some would say, politically motivated. The last time Congress debated a health overhaul, when Bill Clinton was president, Hatch and several other senators who now oppose the so-called individual mandate actually supported a bill that would have required it.

    In fact, says Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea. "It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time."

    The 'Free-Rider Effect'

    Pauly, a conservative health economist at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, says it wasn't just his idea. Back in the late 1980s — when Democrats were pushing not just a requirement for employers to provide insurance, but also the possibility of a government-sponsored single-payer system — "a group of economists and health policy people, market-oriented, sat down and said, 'Let's see if we can come up with a health reform proposal that would preserve a role for markets but would also achieve universal coverage.' "

    The idea of the individual mandate was about the only logical way to get there, Pauly says. That's because even with the most generous subsidies or enticements, "there would always be some Evel Knievels of health insurance, who would decline coverage even if the subsidies were very generous, and even if they could afford it, quote unquote, so if you really wanted to close the gap, that's the step you'd have to take."

    One reason the individual mandate appealed to conservatives is because it called for individual responsibility to address what economists call the "free-rider effect." That's the fact that if a person is in an accident or comes down with a dread disease, that person is going to get medical care, and someone is going to pay for it.

    "We called this responsible national health insurance," says Pauly. "There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn't be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens."

    Republican, Democratic Bills Strikingly Similar

    So while President Clinton was pushing for employers to cover their workers in his 1993 bill, John Chafee of Rhode Island, along with 20 other GOP senators and Rep. Bill Thomas of California, introduced legislation that instead featured an individual mandate. Four of those Republican co-sponsors — Hatch, Charles Grassley of Iowa, Robert Bennett of Utah and Christopher Bond of Missouri — remain in the Senate today.

    The GOP's 1993 measure included some features Republicans still want Democrats to consider, including damage award caps for medical malpractice lawsuits.

    But the summary of the Republican bill from the Clinton era and the Democratic bills that passed the House and Senate over the past few months are startlingly alike.

    Beyond the requirement that everyone have insurance, both call for purchasing pools and standardized insurance plans. Both call for a ban on insurers denying coverage or raising premiums because a person has been sick in the past. Both even call for increased federal research into the effectiveness of medical treatments — something else that used to have strong bipartisan support, but that Republicans have been backing away from recently.

    'A Sad Testament'

    Nichols, of the New America Foundation, says he's depressed that so many issues that used to be part of the Republican health agenda are now being rejected by Republican leaders and most of the rank and file. "I think it's a sad testament to the state of relations among the parties that they've gotten to this point," he said.

    And how does economist Pauly feel about the GOP's retreat from the individual mandate they used to promote? "That's not something that makes me particularly happy," he says.
    Excellent smack down Gina, just !@#$%^&*()(ing excellent !!!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

  4. #334
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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post


    Never once did I mention governors Redress. Are you simply incapable of actually reading the arguments presented to you or is this a genetic condition?

    The subject was the voters in Michigan and the reasons the democrats are behind in the polls. Please try to keep up.
    This is why you should read before you post. The prof was talking about a poll on the Michigan governors race. Now do you see why his point was not really a point?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This is why you should read before you post.

    Things that Redress ducked again!

    #1! *drum-roll*

    What did Massachusetts' newest senator run on? What was his platform?

    hint: Its about health care and his vote

    #2! What do the polls say about government in the state of Michigan?

    Sixty-two percent (62%) are angry at the current policies of the federal government, with 42% who are very angry.

    #3 What has been the primary topic and bill being decided upon this year?

    Hint: It rhymes with Stealth Fare

    And the final question ducked by Redress:

    Exactly how in your mind do you compute no impact from a bill that changes 1/6th of the economy and is in the minority for support not influence an election in any state right now?

    The prof was talking about a poll on the Michigan governors race. Now do you see why his point was not really a point?

    Actually Redress you once again prove you are the one who wasn't reading carefully.

    did george win by TWENTY points?

    cuz TWENTY is a LOT of points

    in MICHIGAN

    indeed, it represents a THIRTY FOUR point swing MY WAY just since president pieface became president pieface

    thanks!
    And

    covered?

    LOL!

    well, it sure is bad

    the economy, i mean

    really, really bad

    voters tend to hold responsible the party in power

    that'd be the dems
    It doesn't take a conservative to see that this is about how the voters are voting in Michigan not about how a governor can vote for or against the health care bill.

    Thanks for the laugh Redress. And if you are going to hold onto this fantasy the subject was about how the governor could vote on the health care bill, please provide the direct quote from the Prof that states that.

    Thanks!
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you have absolutely nothing concrete except you want to believe the democrats are bad people and boo hoo we lost.
    I didn't say Democrats are bad people, I said these Democrats are corrupt. Instead of everyone claiming the minority is crying, why don't we admit that these politicians are out of control.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I didn't say Democrats are bad people, I said these Democrats are corrupt. Instead of everyone claiming the minority is crying, why don't we admit that these politicians are out of control.
    Have you considered the possibility that BOTH statements might be true?
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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What did Massachusetts' newest senator run on? What was his platform?

    hint: Its about health care and his vote.
    Hmm. It would be hilarious if Brown had actually voted for Romney's Mass. health care reform law, which is alot like the new federal one, when he was in the state legislature.

    Oh, wait a minute...

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Hmm. It would be hilarious if Brown had actually voted for Romney's Mass. health care reform law, which is alot like the new federal one, when he was in the state legislature.

    Oh, wait a minute...
    That is hilarious. It's almost as if he wants his state to be able to keep its own health care system and make its own changes without submitting to a nationwide one. That's a pretty ridiculous concept.

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    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    I didn't say Democrats are bad people, I said these Democrats are corrupt. Instead of everyone claiming the minority is crying, why don't we admit that these politicians are out of control.
    And just what makes you think for one second that democrats are any more corrupt than the republicans are? Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and a thousand republican bought talking heads say thy are? That's where the corruption is.

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