Page 21 of 39 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 383

Thread: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

  1. #201
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    For one thing, there are many ways to know the will of one's constituents without polls.
    True. However, I'd suggest to you that most of the Democratic representatives who voted for this legislation not only conducted local polls, but also received local feedback AND attended, in person, townhall meetings in their area.

    But do you really think that everyone who voted for a Democrat in 2008 liked a bill that didn't even exist yet back then? Because I can guarantee you that's not the case (I've already noted two people I know who wouldn't have voted for a Democrat if they knew what would have come of it; if you think those are isolated cases, you haven't been paying much attention to politics lately).
    You don't vote for a bill. In a representative democracy, you vote for a person that you are entrusting to do your work, legislatively. That's how a representative democracy works, Dav. In my case, my representative is Alan Boyd. I know his name well because I contact his office at least once a month to express my views on one subject or another. I voted for him because I like him, and I trust him to do the job.

    Let me say it now though: opinion polls show the will of the people. That's actually what they're measuring, so it's hard to say that they don't.
    You're attempting to spin it that the legislators should enact the will of a straight, overall majority of American opinion, but that is not how a representative democracy works. Legislators represent THEIR INDIVIDUAL DISTRICT'S desires and goals. That's how Nancy Pelosi is able to be repeatedly elected. She doesn't work for you, Dav. She works for millions of people in Northern California.

    But now that you mention it, it's funny all the people now saying the will of the people doesn't matter when a bill is unpopular by a large margin, but were viciously against ignoring the will of the people in 2000, when their candidate won a plurality by a fraction of a percent
    .

    Interestingly enough, I explained the role of the electoral college about ten million times in 2000 and 2001, just as patiently as I'm explaining representative democracy to you. My views on how the system works have not changed, substantially, since I was in high school and being elected to state congress.

    A bill that didn't exist until recently has been on the Democratic agenda since 1992?
    The issue has been on the Democratic agenda since 1992, and both Clinton and Obama were rather clear and specific about what they hoped to accomplish. If people didn't hear them, exactly whose fault is that?

    People who vote for any Democrat at all expect them to support the entirety of the Democratic agenda?
    Well, I tend to believe that we know who we're voting for in advance. That's what campaigning is for. I voted for Obama, and I realized, pretty clearly, that he would probably implement or try to implement something that looked a lot like this bill. If you didn't realize it, whose fault is that?


    Question: when was the last time an important bill as unpopular as this one was approved by a slim partisan majority? Was it under Bush? Clinton? Surely in the last 20 years, right? The last 50 years? 100?
    I wouldn't say that going to war in Iraq was particularly popular. Nor was Bush's election in 2000, for that matter. We seem to have kept ourselves from outright fighting in the streets, for the most part.

    Answer: 1854. The Kansas-Nebraska Act. But people came to like that one over time... right? Hey, they voted for Democrats, so they must've secretly approved of it in the back of their minds. It's not like civil war would break out over it or anything... right?
    See what happens when the Democrats attempt to appease the Republicans instead of just doing their jobs?

  2. #202
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,869

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    [quote=LaMidRighter;1058642733]
    13% is alot of the people, but it isn't statistically signifigant.
    The point was that everyone is saying that is what he was elected on, but during the campaign it was always treated as a secondary issue, those things rarely see the light of day, something I didn't think of earlier actually, so a lot of people maybe said give him a chance, it's not like he's really gonna get anything damaging done. Well, now people know better. Obviously not, since I consume much more news than the average person and it was treated like a secondary issue.
    It doesn't have to be statistically significant to make my point since the example was but a few people in your post.

    Did you vote for Obama?



    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    This Bill is just about what the Republican controlled Hertitage group proposed back in the 1990's in response to the Clinton & Clinton health insurance care so called plan. So in essence the TP ARTISTS are going absolutely bezerk over a Bill that there own ilk was touting.

    This is why I have no respect for the TP ARTISTS they are nothing but slogans, empty rhetoric and I must honestly say BS !!!
    I noticed that! There are striking similarities.

    It doesn't matter what Obama does, it's wrong for them. Look at the seven senators who voted against their own bill after Obama openly expressed support.
    Last edited by Gina; 03-25-10 at 09:18 PM.

  3. #203
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I can't speak to the news in Louisiana, but in Florida, the websites were rife with conservatives bleating that Obama = socialized medicine.

    So, forgive me if I'm a little sick of it all at this point.

    I voted for Obama. I'm not a wild-eyed liberal. I was iffy about the bill. However, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this subject. This bill is modeled very closely on what Massachusetts did. I've read about what's happened with medicine in other western countries. I'm not thrilled about healthcare reform, but I have to agree with Bob Dole: The system is broken and needs to be fixed.

    Will this fix it? I don't know. It's a start. I see this exactly the way I saw welfare reform, which if you remember, required some additional tinkering.
    I'm certainly not going to be firing my gun in the air and screaming that the sky is falling. We weathered 9/11 and Iraq. We'll figure it out.

    All the frenzy makes the conservatives look a little kookoo-loco.
    As I read the pages of this bill it is much worse than advertised, I don't know that we "weather this". I also don't judge national based on local news, not enough, I read alot of news and watch/listen from multiple sources, again I heard more talking points than details.

    p.s. Boyfriend interjected that at least 50% of the back and forth between Hilary and Obama was about healthcare reform.
    He's probably right, but this is something the people at political rallies and political junkies would know, not the average voter.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #204
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:37 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,290
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    This is a classic Redress tactic. When you can't argue the facts you impose an opinion your opponent never used.
    Yes, damn me for using logic to show flaws in arguments. Got anything other than mindlessly attacking another poster who has embarrassed you far too often for your taste?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #205
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    As I read the pages of this bill it is much worse than advertised, I don't know that we "weather this". I also don't judge national based on local news, not enough, I read alot of news and watch/listen from multiple sources, again I heard more talking points than details.

    He's probably right, but this is something the people at political rallies and political junkies would know, not the average voter.
    The average person in my neck of the woods who voted for a democrat (the majority in my county) knew they were voting for healthcare reform. In fact, in local polling, that was one of the big local issues.


  6. #206
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post

    It doesn't have to be statistically significant to make my point since the example was but a few people in his post.

    Did you vote for Obama?
    Well, yes and no. The point is that everyone is trying to say that the popularity of this bill was misrepresented like it actually matters in the long run, the fact is it's not. And no I didn't vote for Obama, I barely voted for McCain and not willingly, I didn't want a rubber stamp administration and well, my side lost.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #207
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The average person in my neck of the woods who voted for a democrat (the majority in my county) knew they were voting for healthcare reform. In fact, in local polling, that was one of the big local issues.

    in some regions I'm absolutely sure that's possible, but the overall point is that most of the country is on record as hating this bill.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #208
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    americans did endorse health care with obama, yes, indeed

    but THIS health care, no

    not even close

    you need to buy a tv

    if americans were endorsing THIS health care, what's pieface doing in iowa today?

    and just survey the sea change:

    republicans lead in michigan by between FIFTEEN and TWENTY TWO points

    republicans lead in pennsylvania by between THIRTEEN and TWENTY ONE points

    republicans lead in tennessee by between THIRTEEN and TWENTY points

    republicans lead in iowa by SIXTEEN points

    i don't cite these TRUTHS for merely partisan purposes

    they are truly STUNNING numbers

    republicans lead in CALIFORNIA by SIX points

    that's about the bluest state in the union, and it's coming off six and a half disastrous years under ahnold, the true republican in name only (bless his heart)

    republicans lead in OHIO (the biggest battleground) by FIVE (bless john kasich's heart)

    republicans lead in FLORIDA (gore 2000, anyone?) by a WHOPPING ELEVEN points

    vermont is red by between SEVEN and THIRTEEN

    wisconsin by FIVE

    almost all of those states are gop pickups

    we just a few months back took richmond and trenton---two more pivotal players---both of which witnessed TWENTY FIVE point swings in the fateful YEAR OF OBAMA

    bob ehrlich is set to announce in maryland, he'll be favored, which will be another state stolen from the blues

    in wyoming freudenthal announced he will not run---you know how red wyoming is, cheyenne's assured

    oklahoma's brad henry is term limited---do you think the sooners are gonna support the party of pelosi?

    LOL!

    and bill ritter, former superstar gub of key colorado, quit for mysterious (LOL!) reasons

    you really might wanna look around, that health care train is about to mow you down

    choo choo!
    Last edited by The Prof; 03-25-10 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #209
    Educator TBone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Phoenix
    Last Seen
    04-01-15 @ 08:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    673

    Re: Rep. Cantor: Shots Fired at Richmond Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Actions against any politician of this nature are unnacceptable. I would hope no one condones these actions against either side.
    Any act of violence against any member of Congress or any gov't offical should be treated as domestic terrorism.

    Any group that condones violence, encourages, etc. is an enemy of the USA.

    If a gov't cannot protect its leaders, then how do we expect it to protect us?
    It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
    Emiliano Zapata


  10. #210
    Guru
    Morality Games's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Last Seen
    05-24-16 @ 10:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,733

    Re: House GOP No. 2: Someone shot at my office

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    in some regions I'm absolutely sure that's possible, but the overall point is that most of the country is on record as hating this bill.
    Which would bother me a lot more if most of the country could summarize its contents and forecast its effects in terms of historical and economic causality.

    At any rate, the Democrats are willing to take a risk to do something important. That's more than I can say for the GOP.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-25-10 at 09:24 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

Page 21 of 39 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •