• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Israel Approves New Building in East Jerusalem

In matters of International Law regarding another nation? Yeah, it does.


In NO matters does the UN supersede American sovereignty. And if they feel that way we should pull out of it immediately and withhold our funds from them. Then we'd see just how the little anti American, anti Israel thugs would fare.


j-mac
 
We are discussing the MODERN nation of Israel. Prior to 1948, there had not been a nation of Israel for nearly 2000 years, as your source helpfully explains. ;)

Next time be more specific when you demand evidence and we wont have this problem :)

And exactly how did the US create the modern Israel? Did we send troops? Did Europe? Please, engross us with your fascinating answer...
 
Next time be more specific when you demand evidence and we wont have this problem :)

I'm stunned by the incompetence of your responses.

And exactly how did the US create the modern Israel? Did we send troops? Did Europe? Please, engross us with your fascinating answer...

Did I say that the U.S. created Israel? Another strawman from Texmaster.
 
In NO matters does the UN supersede American sovereignty.

washingtonpost.com

The United States, like the rest of the world, has never recognized Israel's sovereignty over territory occupied in the 1967 war. Still, the two countries always "managed to work out a modus vivendi because more compelling strategic concerns trumped whatever they were quarreling about," said Dore Gold, who was a political adviser to Netanyahu during his first stint as prime minister more than a decade ago.

Gold cited Israel's 1997 decision to build the Har Homa development in East Jerusalem just after Netanyahu signed a deal turning over most of the West Bank city of Hebron to Palestinian control. At the time, the United States vetoed two proposed U.N. Security Council resolutions criticizing Israel for the project.

The difference was that then-President Bill Clinton believed Netanyahu could make progress toward peace, observers said. Obama does not appear to share that sentiment. "There was trust between the president and our prime minister," Hasson said. "Now we don't have it."
 
so, you would have us excuse this illegal construction and displacement of the existing residents because of a semantic distinction

no wonder the expression 'to be jewed' out of something has won widespread acceptance
Actually, I was simply pointing out that new construction inside a city does not constitute the formation of a "settlement", as the area is obviously already "settled".

That's all.

At least, if my interpretation of the term “settle” is correct…
 
No offense, but the western nations CREATED ISRAEL in the first place. :roll:

The United Nations and the Jewish residents of Israel created it. And, when it was fighting for its life against its Muslim neighbors in 1948, they are the ones who won thier freedom. When their freedom was again threatened in 1967 and 1972, they won those conflicts and preserved their independence.

Considering the hypocrisy of nearly ALL nation states regarding statehood and international law -- including the United Nations -- I am not sympathetic to arguments against Israel's right to its territory and to take extraordinary measures to ensure its own security. As the victim of repeated aggression from its neighbors, I am willing to grant them some leeway. Perhaps your arrogance comes from living in a country that doesn't have a significant threat from its neighbors.
 
The United Nations and the Jewish residents of Israel created it. And, when it was fighting for its life against its Muslim neighbors in 1948, they are the ones who won thier freedom. When their freedom was again threatened in 1967 and 1972, they won those conflicts and preserved their independence.

Perhaps your arrogance comes from living in a country that doesn't have a significant threat from its neighbors.

Two thoughts. First, the Jewish people on their own were powerless to create Israel. The UN, LED BY THE WESTERN NATIONS, created Israel out Palestine.

Secondly, I live in America. We've been invaded by 20 million of our southern neighbors illegally, and I've dealt with them in a criminal capacity for nearly 20 years. Perhaps you should save your assumptions and focus on the topic.
:2wave:
 
Israel approves new building in east Jerusalem - Business- msnbc.com



Cabel is a member of Netanyahu's own party. Apparently, he's come to the same conclusion that I have...that Netanyahu, for whatever reasons, is actually sabotaging his relationships with western nations.

Netanyahu "spit in Obama's eye"? Actually, it was the other way around. Obama's behavior with Netanyahu on his recent visit, is totally without precident, and very un-"Presidential", to use a term the left loves. It was disgusting.

Obama walked out on their meeting, then canceled the State Dinner!

What a piece of work Obama is! He has made more enemies of our friends than the left claimed Bush did. Think relations were bad before? The guy is an idiot.

By the way, Jerusalem is their Capital. They can do what they want. Screw the Arabs!
 
Two thoughts. First, the Jewish people on their own were powerless to create Israel. The UN, LED BY THE WESTERN NATIONS, created Israel out Palestine.

Secondly, I live in America. We've been invaded by 20 million of our southern neighbors illegally, and I've dealt with them in a criminal capacity for nearly 20 years. Perhaps you should save your assumptions and focus on the topic.
:2wave:



At least you don't have armies threatening to end your existance as an independent state like Israel does as does the country I live in. The arrogance of Americans never ceases to astound me (and I am U.S.-born).

Who created Israel? Who preserved Israel? Does the West get the right to dictate to Israel because it supposedly created it? Where was the West when its very existance was in peril. Who won the wars in 1948? 1967? 1972? when the Arabs threatened to exterminate the country? Sorry, the West has no moral authority on this particular point. The U.S. also has a long record of hypocrisy on the application of international law and the right of states to self-determination. Who does East Jerusalem belong to? It belonged to Jordan, but when Jordan and its Arab allies started a war against Israel, they lost it and the entirety of the West Bank. Jordan has since relinquished sovereignty over the territory. Given past U.S. behavior on such situations, why shouldn't Israel have the right to claim soveriegnty? Any other argument by the U.S. regarding East Jerusalem and the West Bank would be hypocritical in the extreme.
 
Look... bottom line..... Israel has so little room people can barely breathe. And now this ****ing terrorists are supposed to GET it? I dont think so!

They want to wipe every jew off the map! Hell I think Israel should NEVER have given over Gaza. Now those muslims are launching attacks from Gaza!
 
i am hoping he will execute an executive order prohibiting any financial or military assistance to israel while any settlements are under construction within the disputed territories

Well that would certainly be smart. :roll:

Jerusalem is their Capital. It isn't a "territory".
 
Who created Israel out of What?

........

bmand.gif


77% of British Mandate 'Palestine' was lopped and made Jordan, no Jews allowed.
-

isr47prt.jpg



Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian'.
Leaving the other 23% divided roughly 13-10 for the Jews.

Meaning the Arabs aka Palestinians got 87% of Mandate Palestine.
(the Pink AND Red Areas)

And ½ of the Jews 13% was the Negev Desert. (lower ½ the light Blue Area above)
So Jews really got about 6% of the usable land of the Original Mandate.
AND unlike in The surrounding states... Arabs still live in/make up 20% of Current Israel's population within that land.

2/3 of what became Israel was State Land, passing from the Ottomans, to the British, to the Jews; owned by NO Arab.
This Includes the Half alone of Israel that was/Is the Negev Desert.



and

isr-world.gif


Yes, the lower half of that little that red spot/Israel- is the Negev Desert, State Land under the Ottomans, owned by No Arab. (and about 15-20% more that was also state land). And 20% of the population of the upper half of the Red Dot- is Arab.

Further...
No Land Changed Hands when the UN created Israel AND Palestine.. Resolution 181.

It entailed Not a Single Arab having to move.

Displacement/refugees was the Result of the ARAB-started War/rejection of the partition.
Had they not started that war, they would probably be a majority in Israel now instead of the fully enfranchised 20% they are now.
-
 
Last edited:
Inside a city. Inside East Jerusalem which the Palestinians wish to make their capital. We heard that this extra construction is even in a Palestinian area.

It sounds to me that Israel is just shouting very loud that she has no interest in peace.

Both announcements timed to embarrass would seem to indicate that Israel knows that she is in for problems for going against what she said but is relying on Congress to also not be interested in peace in the ME and to go against Obama.

Israels enemies aren't interested in peace. Why should Israel be? Her enemies wish to wipe them off the face of the earth. That is their aim.

Israel has no reason to bow to them. Screw them.

Look how the Muslims treat us, and all of the Western world. It is the Muslims that should be wiped from the face of the earth, in my opinion. They have said over and over that they want to wipe out Israel, and the United States.

After 9-11, we should have taken care of the situation with nukes. Screw this Vietnam style of war. It accomplishes nothing. We had our chance. We missed it. A big nuke right in Saddams back yard, and one in Afghanistan, would have ended it like right now. A lot of American lives would have been saved.

Why did we use nukes against Japan? To bring the war to a quick end, and save American lives.

I know, I sound radical. But the purpose of war is to "kill people an break things". Israel understands this. We don't (apparently). We understood it once. That's how we won WWII.
 
Look how the Muslims treat us, and all of the Western world. It is the Muslims that should be wiped from the face of the earth, in my opinion. They have said over and over that they want to wipe out Israel, and the United States.

It is about time people in the West realize that the Muslims have been at this for nearly 13 centuries. They have waged war against the Christian world for 13 centuries. Apologists want to blame U.S./European policy in the Middle East for the current state of affairs, but the fact is that Muslims have been waging jihad against Christians since the first expansion of Arab-Muslims from the Hedjaz in the 630s. Why can't people grasp this VERY SIMPLE fact?
 
It is about time people in the West realize that the Muslims have been at this for nearly 13 centuries. They have waged war against the Christian world for 13 centuries. Apologists want to blame U.S./European policy in the Middle East for the current state of affairs, but the fact is that Muslims have been waging jihad against Christians since the first expansion of Arab-Muslims from the Hedjaz in the 630s. Why can't people grasp this VERY SIMPLE fact?

Oh, the Crusades were waged by Muslims against Christians? Trying to pass off your ignorance of history as facts is pathetic. In case you forgot, it was the Holy Roman Empire that banned Jews from their holiest city. After Patriarch Sophronius surrendered the city, Caliph Umar allowed Jews back into Jerusalem after 500 years of oppressive Christian rule.
 
Oh, the Crusades were waged by Muslims against Christians? Trying to pass off your ignorance of history as facts is pathetic. In case you forgot, it was the Holy Roman Empire that banned Jews from their holiest city. After Patriarch Sophronius surrendered the city, Caliph Umar allowed Jews back into Jerusalem after 500 years of oppressive Christian rule.

The Crusades were a RESPONSE to centuries of Islamic aggression against Christian lands. Do you know what sparked the calls for the First Crusade in the first place?

Be wary of casting the stone of historical ignorance lest you show it yourself.
 
I think you should read up on some history, Digsbe. The U.S. has NEVER acknowledged Israel's "right" to East Jerusalem.

I don't think it matters if the US recognizes it. I believe Israel obtained it after winning a war they didn't start. Jerusalem is their capitol, why not unite it?
 
Two thoughts. First, the Jewish people on their own were powerless to create Israel. The UN, LED BY THE WESTERN NATIONS, created Israel out Palestine.
That is history revisionism I'm afraid.

Israel was created by the sweat of the Jewish people who were sitting in it, and by the actions of the Zionist movement.
 
The Crusades were a RESPONSE to centuries of Islamic aggression against Christian lands. Do you know what sparked the calls for the First Crusade in the first place?

Be wary of casting the stone of historical ignorance lest you show it yourself.

So these lands are Christian lands now? Care to explain why these are Christian lands?

And yes, I know what sparked the calls for the First Crusade. Do you? Do the words 'Erdmann thesis' mean anything to you?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Get back on track here and discuss the OP.
 
So these lands are Christian lands now? Care to explain why these are Christian lands?

And yes, I know what sparked the calls for the First Crusade. Do you? Do the words 'Erdmann thesis' mean anything to you?

They WERE Christian lands before the Muslims overran them!!!

The Seljuq Empire was threatening Constantinople which prompted the Roman Emperor to plead to the Pope for help. It was after the receipt of that request for help that Pope Urban I called for the Crusade. Or, does simple history like this cause a problem for you. That entire region (in addition to North Africa) was CHRISTIAN prior to it being conquered by the Arabs. THAT is history, my friend.
 
Well, I am usually on the Israeli side but I have to admit I really do not understand why you would even want to put houses with families in such a high risk area. Isn't there anyplace in Israel to build a residential area?

Moe
 
Back
Top Bottom