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Thread: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    What's gonna happen is, when CA legalizes weed, they're gonna stop growing oranges and then my orange juice prices will skyrocket!

    The price of a Screwdriver will double overnight.
    You can always make a weed driver. That is a shot of vodka, followed by a shotgun.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I agree, to a substantial degree. But still, money is power, prestige and influence. Take away most of their source of revenue: that will drastically reduce their power, prestige and influence. It should cut down at least some on gang-related and drug-related violence.

    That would be if we legalized the production/supply chain, and regulated it and taxed it, but still kept it far cheaper than the black-market stuff.

    And yeah, to have a really big impact it would have to be more than just mj... and that's where I'm not so sure how far we should go.
    On the one hand I don't think weed is even AS bad as booze, but crack is a different matter and meth is a whole different ballgame. I have a hard time with the idea of legalizing something as toxic as meth.

    On the one hand, if someone wants to destroy their body (quickly at that) with meth, that's their decision. OTOH, would making it legal and readily available increase the number of users? Is putting the stamp of legalistic approval on something so toxic the right thing to do?

    Dunno.

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    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Its still against federal law. Big whoop.

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Isn't there a difference between hemp and marijuana? Basically one has low amounts of thc in it and the other does? SO how would that apply to recreational use?
    Hemp will give you a headache, Pot will get rid of the headache.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Which will hopefully provoke a Constitutional crisis that will bring the 10th Amendment to the forefront of American political consciousness for the first time in a long while!
    This denotes a misunderstanding of thw 10th amendment.
    What you really need to look at is the supremacy clause.
    That is, though a state may not make it illegal, it can still be illegal under federal law.

    Powers reserved to the states or to the people!
    The federal government clearly has the power to regulate interstate commerce and intrastate commerce that affects interstane commerce. If that power applies to the wheat a farmer would like to keep for his own personal use (which it does) then it applies to intra-state pot.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 03-26-10 at 03:40 PM.

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You can always make a weed driver. That is a shot of vodka, followed by a shotgun.
    One of the more powerful anti-cannabis lobby's is the alcohol industry. Only a select few people(myself being one) can drink and smoke at the same time and function just as well as if they were doing only one. Legal cannabis will most likely cut the profit margins on cheaper alcohol while increasing the margins on all sorts of food consumption.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, digsbe, let's keep the thread on topic.

    Drugs are harmful to whom? How?
    Drugs are harmful to the user both medically and emotionally/relationally. Not all drugs are equal, marijuana is not as bad as say heroine. Depending on the drug you will have different medical affects. There are lots of deaths related to illegal drug overdose, and my father used to run the rescue mission in my city so I have seen how a drug habit can destroy someone's family and career.
    Drugs are dangerous to whom? How?
    Drugs are dangerous to the user and to people close to the user. Many families have had financial struggles because of a drug habit. Many jobs have been lost because of a drug habit. And many relationship have failed because of a drug habit either by the user or someone close to the user. It's similar to how alcohol can destroy if one becomes an alcoholic. The issue though is that most drugs are more potent than a beer and aren't as damaging physically.
    Give me the wise reasons for maintaining their criminal status.
    I don't think all drugs need to be criminalized, each substance is an issue of it's own. As of now I don't really have an opinion of criminalizing or decriminalizing certain drugs. However I support less punishments for marijuana use and lighter sentences to drug addicts. However, drugs like crack, heroine, LCD, and others should remain illegal. They are unhealthy for the user, they are bad for society, and it's abusing a substance.
    What is the morality of drug criminalization?
    The morality of drug criminalization is preventing discord in society and from people destroying themselves through drug use. Is it good to have more crack addicts or heroine addicts? Should we have more deaths and addictions related to drug use? What about motor skills? Having drugs legalized on a large scale will increase usage, which will also increase vehicle wrecks due to substance abuse (like alcohol, marijuana, and other drugs).
    Why is it better to criminalize drugs when the harm done from criminalizing them is greater than the harm done using them?[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    So how long until marijuana ads appear during the Super Bowl?

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    I'll split soft drugs and hard drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib
    Drugs are harmful to whom? How?
    Drugs are harmful to the user both medically and emotionally/relationally. Not all drugs are equal, marijuana is not as bad as say heroine. Depending on the drug you will have different medical affects. There are lots of deaths related to illegal drug overdose, and my father used to run the rescue mission in my city so I have seen how a drug habit can destroy someone's family and career.
    *Soft Drugs* Marijuana, and other low addictive drugs are not very harmful to the users. The other addictive drugs, like psilocyban, are taken orally. Marijuana is smoked and you would think there would be some damage caused by that. There are studies, however, that show no additional risk to lung cancer or other respiratory diseases from smoking Marijuana. I guess you only smoke 1 or 2 jays a day and it doesn't hurt you. Getting behind the wheel of a car can injure or kill someone while under the influence.

    *Hard Drugs* We are talking coke, crack, meth and heroin - highly addictive substances. You can OD on these. Heavy users have weight problems and perhaps other problems I am unaware of. I believe they can be temporarily debilitating to your health. I don't think it is permanent. Driving under the influence can be deadly.

    I don't know what you mean by drugs being harmful emotionally/relationally.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib
    Drugs are dangerous to whom? How?
    Drugs are dangerous to the user and to people close to the user. Many families have had financial struggles because of a drug habit. Many jobs have been lost because of a drug habit. And many relationship have failed because of a drug habit either by the user or someone close to the user. It's similar to how alcohol can destroy if one becomes an alcoholic. The issue though is that most drugs are more potent than a beer and aren't as damaging physically.
    Part of the financial danger is due to them being illegal and priced on the black market. Legalization should ease prices. Also, that tends to be more of a problem with the *hard addicting drugs*. I will also point to your observation that alcohol, a legal substance, can also cause these problems. Therefore, these problems should not prevent legalization.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib
    Give me the wise reasons for maintaining their criminal status.
    I don't think all drugs need to be criminalized, each substance is an issue of it's own. As of now I don't really have an opinion of criminalizing or decriminalizing certain drugs. However I support less punishments for marijuana use and lighter sentences to drug addicts. However, drugs like crack, heroine, LCD, and others should remain illegal. They are unhealthy for the user, they are bad for society, and it's abusing a substance.
    *Soft Drugs* We are talking legalization, not just decriminalization. However, on the criminalization angle, these soft drugs do not harm other people, only possibly the user. There is no way they should be criminal as a result of that observation. There is no crime committed by using. Furthermore, if they were legal there would be no crime associated with the production and distribution of these drugs. The harm caused by the criminalization is what the real issue is since the crime and criminal enterprises that creates is very harmful to society. The fact that they may be unhealthy for the user is no reason to prevent them being legal - see cigarettes. Whether they are criminal, decriminalized or legal makes no difference to the level of use within society, so the claim that they are bad for society does not apply. Abusing a substance, while problematic health-wise, is no reason to keep them illegal.

    *Hard Drugs* I am going to argue that hard drugs should be legal. They don't harm other people, therefore they should not be criminal. Abuse of them harms other people but that is a separate issue. Keeping them criminal creates crime and criminal enterprises which is the real harm to society. We should legalize them in order to treat them as a health problem and not a criminal problem. By legalizing, we remove the criminal element from distribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib
    What is the morality of drug criminalization?
    The morality of drug criminalization is preventing discord in society and from people destroying themselves through drug use. Is it good to have more crack addicts or heroine addicts? Should we have more deaths and addictions related to drug use? What about motor skills? Having drugs legalized on a large scale will increase usage, which will also increase vehicle wrecks due to substance abuse (like alcohol, marijuana, and other drugs).
    It is not our place to protect people from destroying themselves through drug use - see alcohol. Studies show that there is no increase in use when decriminalizing these substances. Treating these addictions as health problems, rather than treating use as a criminal problem, allows us to rehabilitate users of hard drugs. Drugs legalized on a large scale will not increase usage, therefore we will not see increased wrecks.

    Why is it better to criminalize drugs when the harm done from criminalizing them is greater than the harm done using them?
    I agree with what you are saying. Is it what you meant to say? When you include the harm done by crime and criminal enterprises due to drug criminalization, then the harm done criminalizing them IS greater than the harm done using them. We should legalize them to remove the criminal element and deal with drugs as a health problem. This applies to soft and hard drugs.

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So how long until marijuana ads appear during the Super Bowl?
    Never, if legislation is implemented properly. Legalize does not, and should not, mean glamorize.

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