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Thread: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's not regulation to say something is illegal or not marriage. How is government any bigger due to criminalized drugs and homosexual marriages not being legal? By your reasoning are all laws for big government? So should all who support limited government also support anarchy and a lawless society? We have laws because of morality, so should murder and rape be legal to shrink government influence?
    There's a big difference between rape and murder and homosexual marriage.

    Legislation should have common sense. Person kill Person = bad.

    Man marry Man = None of our damn business. Not as if they're trying to force you to be gay.

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's not regulation to say something is illegal or not marriage. How is government any bigger due to criminalized drugs and homosexual marriages not being legal? By your reasoning are all laws for big government? So should all who support limited government also support anarchy and a lawless society? We have laws because of morality, so should murder and rape be legal to shrink government influence?
    When you have the government coming in and regulating who can marry who THAT is increased government regulation in the same way ANY law is increased government regulation.

    As far as your second point. I am not the one calling for smaller government. I am not a "Government is the problem" kinda guy. I agree with you that Government is important and that we need laws to govern our society. Laws governing murder and rape are proper governmental involvement because that laws involve preventing harm to another.

    Laws governing personal relationships, drugs, etc are expanding government into areas that are best left to the individual.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    When you have the government coming in and regulating who can marry who THAT is increased government regulation in the same way ANY law is increased government regulation.

    As far as your second point. I am not the one calling for smaller government. I am not a "Government is the problem" kinda guy. I agree with you that Government is important and that we need laws to govern our society. Laws governing murder and rape are proper governmental involvement because that laws involve preventing harm to another.

    Laws governing personal relationships, drugs, etc are expanding government into areas that are best left to the individual.
    Actually, regulation would be going in and changing the laws to force the government to allow homosexuals to have marital status.

    Laws don't stop gays from having gay relationships, they just don't recognize it as marriage. Drugs are harmful and dangerous substances and there are wise reasons for their criminal status. I don't want to de-rail this thread, but moral legislation is not about giving government control, it's about ethics and not recognizing what many believe to be immoral as moral.

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Actually, regulation would be going in and changing the laws to force the government to allow homosexuals to have marital status.

    Laws don't stop gays from having gay relationships, they just don't recognize it as marriage. Drugs are harmful and dangerous substances and there are wise reasons for their criminal status. I don't want to de-rail this thread, but moral legislation is not about giving government control, it's about ethics and not recognizing what many believe to be immoral as moral.
    No. If their were no restrictions on gay marriage there would be no regulation. Its not that difficult.

    Laws have stopped gays from having gay relationships, in fact, some states actually have those outdated statutes on their books.
    Government should not be involved in saying what is or what is not marriage. Its not the government's role. That is why "conservatives" like Barry Goldwater stayed as far away from the social arena as possible.

    Drugs can be harmful, but it is a huge expansion of government to be involved in the arrest, trial, conviction , etc of simple possession, especially of something that isn't harmful, like marijuana.

    Moral legislation is about HUGE governmental control. Control of things that are best left to the individuals that are directly affected. Absent harm to another, expanding the government to regulate them run counter to the very concepts of "conservatism".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How is government any bigger due to criminalized drugs and homosexual marriages not being legal?
    DEA, ONDCP, and ~70 billion a year for the drugs, and those are just the most obvious ones.. that whole enforcement/incarceration thing makes the Gov bigger too ya know.

    Edit: and there are plenty of other threads to discuss the Gay marriage thing.
    Last edited by marduc; 03-25-10 at 08:16 PM.
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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Drugs are harmful and dangerous substances and there are wise reasons for their criminal status.
    Ok, digsbe, let's keep the thread on topic.

    Drugs are harmful to whom? How?

    Drugs are dangerous to whom? How?

    Give me the wise reasons for maintaining their criminal status.

    What is the morality of drug criminalization?

    Why is it better to criminalize drugs when the harm done from criminalizing them is greater than the harm done using them?

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Although already answered by Danarhea, and the initiative does take necessary steps to deal with the supply chain issue, the effect on the cartels will still be minimal, since this is but one of 50 states that are funding the cartels, and marijuana is ~60% of their income (Mexican cartels that is), and other drugs are the rest.

    Thinking that this will have a drastic effect on the cartels is premature, it would take numerous states following suit, which hopefully will occur once they realize the canary in the coal mine is singing quite happily.

    What it will do is allow resources to be better focused on real crime, and it will reduce the amount of money going to local gangs, which in turn will have a negative pressure on gang allure and influence on kids.
    I believe that even if it were legalized in all 50 states we would still be fighting the war on weed and the cartels.

    Legal weed will be taxed and probably at a rather high rate such as tobacco. So people will still be willing to purchase better quality/cheaper rates on the black market. So we will still be busting growers and buyers that try and avoid taxes.

    I am curous. Since the most liberal states seem to push tobacco restrictions (can't smoke in public, around kids, ect.) will they make the same push for restricting pot?

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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I believe that even if it were legalized in all 50 states we would still be fighting the war on weed and the cartels.

    Legal weed will be taxed and probably at a rather high rate such as tobacco. So people will still be willing to purchase better quality/cheaper rates on the black market. So we will still be busting growers and buyers that try and avoid taxes.

    I am curous. Since the most liberal states seem to push tobacco restrictions (can't smoke in public, around kids, ect.) will they make the same push for restricting pot?
    This is something that has to be done correctly, and there needs to be checks in place to evaluate the pricing, and to make sure that they can be adapted to accomplish the primary goal of rendering the black market obsolete.

    There were 2 bills going through state legislation last year, one in CA, and one in Mass. The Ca bill proposal had a $50 an ounce tax rate, hefty, yet quite reasonable, and still leaves ample room for profitability while undercutting the black market. The Mass. Proposal had a sliding scale depending on THC content, and went as high as $250 an ounce, this threw red flags up for me, it is too much, and would still leave room for potential black markets IMO. Then I read the bill more, and there were mechanisms in it to regularly evaluate and adjust the tax rate accordingly to properly balance tax income versus black market eradication. I still fear with that particular piece of legislation lawmakers may try to get too greedy.

    There is ample room to tax heavily, and STILL undermine black market prices. marijuana does not take much money to actually grow, and the cartels are making their money off from relatively low quality seeded marijuana grown outdoors, the quality will most assuredly go up, just as the quality currently available for medicinal marijuana is way above your typical mexican brick weed.

    It is a necessity to out compete the black market, fortunately, this is extremely easy to do.
    Last edited by marduc; 03-25-10 at 09:11 PM.
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    Re: Calif. voters to decide whether to legalize pot

    What's gonna happen is, when CA legalizes weed, they're gonna stop growing oranges and then my orange juice prices will skyrocket!

    The price of a Screwdriver will double overnight.

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