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Thread: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

  1. #91
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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    So I'm saying that Lieberman has come up and said that he has not received any evidence from Britain.


    You're then saying that it is my own opinion, even though it is really a fact and is something that I've seen with my own eyes, watching the news, understanding Hebrew, and understanding the words that are coming out of Lieberman's mouth as the picture is moving.


    I then choose to simply do a quick googling and show you the translated statement.
    You in return label it as 'propaganda' and say that it's the result of Israel's "bad freedom of press" (even though the ranking was only due to Israel's handling of the Gaza operation).


    Now the catch is, that that statement exactly was simply copied and pasted into the link that I've used, and your objection to the source being Israeli is nothing but the result of a massive and heavy propaganda against the Israeli nation.
    No, I said what Lieberman said sounded like
    propaganda. You do tend to twist things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post

    Now here's the same exact statement from a foreign newspaper:
    UK Expels Israeli Diplomat Over Dubai Murder Case

    The mere fact that you show utter dissatisfaction, and pure objection to that which is real and true, to that which is known and obvious, to that which exists in the realm of reality, shows that you are completely mislead by your bias and unavoidably discredits your posts.

    To state it in simple words - I have just witnessed you denying that a politician has stated some words, even though he has stated them in front of TV and tens of reporters.
    It's sorta like denying that Obama has ever said "Yes we can".
    Again I did not say that he didn't say it, just that it sounds like propaganda.

    I think it would be unlikely Israel was not told what we had found.

    (I accept that my reference to freedom of the press may have confused you. It simply surprises me that if you do have freedom of the press some of your papers are not acknowledging it. As a result of this confusion you have said things which are way off.)
    Last edited by alexa; 03-24-10 at 02:03 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  2. #92
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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    We haven't been investigating the killing Kaya, we are leaving that to Dubai.
    From a spectator P.O.V then.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Again, where is the evidence?
    Israel could just as well have claimed that they have compelling reasons to believe Britain is behind this, seeing that the absolute majority of the passports were British, and that most of the identities that were used have belonged to British citizenship holders - but there is no real evidence to legally blame either Israel or Britain.
    Sorry this isnt a court case.
    Evidence or no evidence, Israel has slapped a "I DID IT" sign on there foreheads all the while turning around and saying there isn't any evidence to prove it, but its enough to react on it and be sure it was Mossad. Again, we all know damn well who it was, in the West we have no interests in playing games with those who think they can undermine us. If your unhappy with the general consensus of the belief it was Mossad both in the media and here in the West, please do take a moment of your time to write a letter of complaint to your nearest British embassy.

    It's not a big issue, merely a use of foreign passports by foreign agents, something that happens every ****ing day.
    Its not everyday they get caught, and not everyday a wide scale operation is used with them to kill a Hamas top official.
    This is no random pen pusher we're talking about here.
    Its one of the top dogs in one of the biggest political terror networks in the world that got killed that day.
    The motives where clear, no evidence or with it.

    If you find it a "no biggie" that allied Secret Services took an advantage of the trust bestowed on you by us, then well, your on on own on that one, just to make that very clear.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 03-24-10 at 02:14 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Sorry this isnt a court case.
    Evidence or no evidence, Israel has slapped a "I DID IT" sign on there foreheads all the while turning around and saying there isn't any evidence to prove it, but its enough to react on it and be sure it was Mossad. Again, we all know damn well who it was, in the West we have no interests in playing games with those who think they can undermine us. If your unhappy with the general consensus of the belief it was Mossad both in the media and here in the West, please do take a moment of your time to write a letter of complaint to your nearest British embassy.
    Israel has fully cooperated with the British investigation, as noted by David Miliband.

    And when dealing with state affairs, it is indeed a "court case".
    I personally do not believe it was a Mossad operation, since I do not believe the Mossad would use Israeli citizens' identities.
    Its not everyday they get caught
    Technically speaking, no one has got caught here.
    and not everyday a wide scale operation is used with them to kill a Hamas top official.
    This is no random pen pusher we're talking about here.
    Its one of the top dogs in one of the biggest political terror networks in the world that got killed that day.
    The motives where clear, no evidence or with it.
    It has happened before.
    If you find it a "no biggie" that allied Secret Services took an advantage of the trust bestowed on you by us, then well, your on on own on that one, just to make that very clear.
    I find the British reaction to be a "no biggie" since they have decided to continue the cooperation with the Israeli intelligence services in the counter-terrorism field.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    No, I said what Lieberman said sounded like
    propaganda. You do tend to twist things.
    After you've called the text propaganda, you have referred to the Israeli freedom of press as a supporting statement to your argument.

    Were you referring to Lieberman's words alone as "propaganda" (which also aren't, since it was not denied by British officials), you wouldn't have to mention the Israeli freedom of press status.

    I think you've just realized how obvious it was that you were wrong, and are now retracting on your own words.
    I don't buy it.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    After you've called the text propaganda, you have referred to the Israeli freedom of press as a supporting statement to your argument.

    Were you referring to Lieberman's words alone as "propaganda" (which also aren't, since it was not denied by British officials), you wouldn't have to mention the Israeli freedom of press status.

    I think you've just realized how obvious it was that you were wrong, and are now retracting on your own words.
    I don't buy it.
    I was referring to what he said as propaganda. I then felt of your inability to even question whether Israel was responsible for this and then freedom of the press came to mind.

    No, I was not retracting my words but I did realise you could have been confused by them.

    And yes, I think I have heard we did not talk to Israel but I have also heard people talking about us talking to Israel. I still think it is highly unlikely we did not report to Israel what we have found and if we did not there must be a very good reason which will possibly come out at some point.

    It strikes me as being a bit like spy work, there are things which are being kept very hush husH. Nonetheless the Government is very definite that it has compelling reasons to believe it is Israel on circumstantial evidence.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I was referring to what he said as propaganda. I then felt of your inability to even question whether Israel was responsible for this and then freedom of the press came to mind.
    Does this statement make sense even in your own eyes?
    Out of the blue, freedom of press came to mind.
    I still think it is highly unlikely we did not report to Israel what we have found and if we did not there must be a very good reason which will possibly come out at some point.
    "There must be a very good reason"..?
    That's it?
    It strikes me as being a bit like spy work, there are things which are being kept very hush husH. Nonetheless the Government is very definite that it has compelling reasons to believe it is Israel on circumstantial evidence.
    Reasons it doesn't share with anyone else.
    Uh-ah.
    Chavez has compelling reasons to believe the US is at fault for Haiti's earthquake, so I've heard.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post

    "There must be a very good reason"..?
    That's it?
    If the UK has not shown Israel it's reason for coming to the conclusion that it is responsible, then of course there must be a good reason. I personally believe we will have discussed this with them. I have already posed some of the reasons why both the UK and Israel could be keeping quiet about this and they include your security and other on going investigations by other countries.





    Today's developments follow an inquiry by the Serious and Organised Crime Agency (Soca).

    Mliband said inquiries were still under way in other countries and that it would not be appropriate for "legal and other reasons" to release the Soca report in full.

    But he said that, given the quality of the forgeries, it was "highly likely" that they were made by a state intelligence service.

    "This, together with other enquiries, and the links to Israel established by Soca, [means] we have concluded that there are compelling reasons to believe that Israel was responsible for the misuse of British passports," Miliband told MPs in a statement this afternoon.

    Miliband said the UK government took the matter extremely seriously and had written to the Israeli administration seeking assurances that such misuse would never happen again.

    The misuse of UK passports not only presented a hazard to British nationals in the region but also represented a "profound disregard" for the sovereignty of the United Kingdom, the foreign secretary said.

    "The fact that this was done by a country that is a friend with significant diplomatic, cultural, business and personal ties to the UK only adds insult to injury. No country or government could stand by in such a situation."

    Miliband told MPs that the Soca report had been studied by the prime minister and was presented to the cabinet earlier today.
    David Miliband: 'Compelling evidence' Israel was behind misuse of UK passports in Hamas hit | Politics | guardian.co.uk
    Last edited by alexa; 03-24-10 at 03:29 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  9. #99
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    Re: UK expels Israeli Diplomat

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Israel has fully cooperated with the British investigation, as noted by David Miliband.

    And when dealing with state affairs, it is indeed a "court case".
    I personally do not believe it was a Mossad operation, since I do not believe the Mossad would use Israeli citizens' identities.
    Clearly Mossad has no moral boundaries so dont be too sure of yourself.

    Israel can fully cooperate all they want, its play tactics. Nobody is getting arrested Apoco, this ISNT a court case that needs evidence. In court you cant send people down just because something is obvious.
    We all have our minds set who and why they did it.
    The Mossad has used British passports before, the same thing happened during Thatchers day. Its a grave insult to our relationship and the security resources we have allowed Israeli personnel to access who are clearly handing it over hand and foot to the Mossad.

    It has happened before.
    Yes, usually Mossad is on the other end of the silencer when Hamas is involved.

    I find the British reaction to be a "no biggie" since they have decided to continue the cooperation with the Israeli intelligence services in the counter-terrorism field.
    It might have no major impact on relations, true, but what Mossad has done is wrong and disgusting [using UK passports] and our government should take serious actions against Israel.

    As well as it being a sheer insult, its almost as if the Mossad has attempted to frame us, and i believe sanctions against Israel and expulsion of the ambassador (and the recalling of our Israeli one) would have been a better response, but this isnt an ideal world.

    It would teach them a lesson next time they want to use our passports to wack some guy.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 03-24-10 at 04:47 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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