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Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

Dems ditch 'deem and pass,' moving toward an up-or-down vote - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

speculation...

about possibilities...

LOLOLOL!

why don't pissy progressives post links?

Not sure what is the point you are trying to make here Prof. No one is denying Deem and Pass was Plan B for the Democrats.

The point I made is that it was not necessary. The Democrats showed they had a spine by actually living up to their campaign promise and used their majority vote to pass HCR.
 
Not sure what is the point you are trying to make here Prof. No one is denying Deem and Pass was Plan B for the Democrats.

The point I made is that it was not necessary. The Democrats showed they had a spine by actually living up to their campaign promise and used their majority vote to pass HCR.

The point is, the House passed a bill that made them want to puke, but it was their only option. They had to do it by writing an executive order (worthless) to get a Dem to vote against an amendment that HE wrote.

Now, they have to reconcile it, not for details, but for huge components of the bill, while on the other hand fighting states who are suing over the legislation for constitutional reasons, and for the inevitable bankruptcy it will cause for many states. THAT IS NOT WHAT RECONCILATION IS FOR.

Next, when the GOP takes over in November, they will not fund the thing, so it sits stagnant. Then, when they win the white house in 2012, they will repeal the whole damned awful bill, and reintroduce the good points as seperate bills one by one.

So congrats. Yesterday is looking more like a photo op every second. (And that was unseemly yesterday; millions of people suffering while they held their own little political pep rally/pillow fight for the cameras.)
 
Not sure what is the point you are trying to make here Prof. No one is denying Deem and Pass was Plan B for the Democrats.

the point i'm making, not trying to make, is---the DEEM was really DUMB politics

and it wasn't PLAN B

at least not until SUNDAY

take care, my classy friend from the other side
 
The point is, the House passed a bill that made them want to puke, but it was their only option. They had to do it by writing an executive order (worthless) to get a Dem to vote against an amendment that HE wrote.

That's what happens when you try to draft a bipartisan bill that one party is out to stop at any cost. Have you actually read the executive order, it states that abortion is not funded in the HCR as per the already existing Hyde Amendment. It was merely personal assurance from the president for the Democrats who were unclear on that.

Now, they have to reconcile it, not for details, but for huge components of the bill, while on the other hand fighting states who are suing over the legislation for constitutional reasons, and for the inevitable bankruptcy it will cause for many states. THAT IS NOT WHAT RECONCILATION IS FOR.

Please cite your source that reconciliation will be legally challenged? As for the frivolous lawsuits that have been filed for supposed constitutional reasons, its just a waste of taxpayers money.

Next, when the GOP takes over in November, they will not fund the thing, so it sits stagnant. Then, when they win the white house in 2012, they will repeal the whole damned awful bill, and reintroduce the good points as seperate bills one by one.

That's what McCain thinks too, that the legal challenges will not be successful. Well, I guess everyone has to have a dream! Keep dreaming my friend!

So congrats.

Thanks, it is refreshing to see our representatives finally follow through on their campaign promises. Haven't seen that in decades!
 
the point i'm making, not trying to make, is---the DEEM was really DUMB politics

and it wasn't PLAN B

at least not until SUNDAY

take care, my classy friend from the other side


Your point is moot. The bill was passed by majority vote.
 
you wish

unfortunately everyone SAW it

cuz it's all leadership TALKED about in that CRUCIAL week

you can't just ERASE the TAPE

cuz the TAPE is non PARTISAN

i understand your NEED, however, to TRY

it was really GROSS
 
you wish

unfortunately everyone SAW it....

What everyone saw was what occurred, HCR passed by majority vote, fulfilling the 2008 election mandate.
 
radical reform of 1/6 of united states society was CRAMMED down america's throat with the backing of only EIGHTY PERCENT of the president's OWN CAUCUS

pathetic

and pointedly problematic politically

social security, medicare and the civil rights act all enjoyed MAJORITY support from the opposition

in contrast, obamacare came within a DAY of a DEEM

LOL!
 
Have you actually read the executive order, it states that abortion is not funded in the HCR as per the already existing Hyde Amendment.

clearly, stupak disagreed

it is refreshing to see our representatives finally follow through on their campaign promises

campaign promises...

LOL!

transparency

cspan

reaching across aisles

ending divides

not taxing lower and middle classes

not taxing benefits

not imposing personal mandates

paying as you go

not burdening states with 200B of unfunded demands

paying for 2/3 of all this crap by recovering waste, fraud and abuse...

campaign promises fulfilled---LOL!
 
radical reform of 1/6 of united states society was CRAMMED down america's throat with the backing of only EIGHTY PERCENT of the president's OWN CAUCUS

pathetic

and pointedly problematic politically

social security, medicare and the civil rights act all enjoyed MAJORITY support from the opposition

in contrast, obamacare came within a DAY of a DEEM

LOL!

Majority vote is how things are passed in a Republic. I will grant you it is remarkable that Representatives actually followed through on their campaign promises, making this historic victory for the people even more impressive.

Of course you may deem to stick with the "no we can't" theme if you think it will help you in the next elections.
 
Thanks, it is refreshing to see our representatives finally follow through on their campaign promises. Haven't seen that in decades!

He hasn't followed up on a promise yet.

He even said he'd wait 5 days to sign any bill that reaches his desk. He couldn't even hold up to THAT promise. LOL
 
Majority vote is how things are passed in a Republic. I will grant you it is remarkable that Representatives actually followed through on their campaign promises, making this historic victory for the people even more impressive.

Of course you may deem to stick with the "no we can't" theme if you think it will help you in the next elections.

Do you always fallback to the position that the majority is always right?

Do you ever review legislation before you support it?
 
campaign promises fulfilled...

LOL!

TWENTY PERCENT OF HIS OWN PARTY won't even buy THAT
 
Yeah?? And here's Odimwit's response to the American People:


dp7obama-gives-the-finger.jpg

No, just his response to the repubs. :mrgreen:
 
the minority is really MESSING with the party in power upstairs

LOL!

it's so EASY to do!

the gop is gonna offer amendment after amendment and FORCE harry's homies to ASSENT to things like---erectile dysfunction drugs for sex offenders


LOL!

any little change in the NUKE OPTION package upstairs requires a COMPLETE REDO thru pelosi's place

on a more serious level, lifetime SPENDING HAWK john mccain from arizona is proposing AN AMENDMENT REQUIRING THE REMOVAL OF ALL SWEETHEART DEALS AND BRIBES STILL IN THE RECONCILE

the hospitals for dead dodd, the banks for pomeroy's bismarck, the gator for bill nelson's aid, the airports for suckerpunch stupak, the cadillacs for the seiu, and literally tens of others

i'm afraid messieurs schumer, rockefeller, wyden, et al, are gonna have to ENDORSE to the LETTER, each DOTTED i, each CROSSED t, the reconcile in toto, OR ELSE HERE WE GO ALL OVER AGAIN

there's also another SERIOUS APPEAL in the COURTS on the part of the STATES...

States Sue Over Overhaul That Will Bust State Budgets (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

those are a lot of awfully DARK BLUE dominions, did you NOTICE?

and them's quite a hefty chunk of ELECTED REPS expressing dire disaffection

the move won't go anywhere, of course, it's true

BUT THE STATES ARE PISSED, that's the point

(it shocks me, really, how you miss the meaning of so many stories)

hey, maybe i'll START A THREAD about it!

LOL!

the point---this thing aint goin away, not for a single second

live it, libs

embrace it, bro's

it's YOURS!

I certainly hope they do. I hope the dems remind everyone that if you think the bills are crappy that they thank the repubs for it. :2wave:
 
now there's a BRILLIANT suggestion

bumper sticker, november, 2010:

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE HEALTH CARE BILL BLAME JOHN BOEHNER!

LOL!
 
He hasn't followed up on a promise yet.

He even said he'd wait 5 days to sign any bill that reaches his desk. He couldn't even hold up to THAT promise. LOL

The top three election issues in 2008 were the economy, the Iraq war, and Health care reform.

The economy has improved, the troops are being withdrawn (although not fast enough I agree), and health care reform has been passed.

I predict a landslide reelection for Obama in 2012.
 
Do you always fallback to the position that the majority is always right?

I didn't say the majority is always right, I said the majority vote is what passes legislation in a Republic.

Do you ever review legislation before you support it?

Of course, do you ever review legislation before you oppose it?
 
do you ever review legislation before you oppose it?

yes, always

massive cuts to m and m while simultaneously expanding both bankrupt entitlements

the claim to pay for TWO THIRDS of this crap by rooting out waste, fraud and abuse (LOL!)

a quarter T doc fix, not paid for

the double counting of another quarter T, according to cbo

10 years of taxes, only 6 of benefits

taxes, fines and fees on lower and middle class, small and large biz, PAYROLL, targeted industries...

special exemptions for deadbeats like dodd and baucus and nelson and nelson and landrieu and pomeroy and the seiu...

mandates on individuals to buy for themselves a (prohibitively expensive) product (in the middle of a depression) from a PRIVATE company en lieu of a PUBLIC OPTION

i could go on

this bill is a PIG

and it's YOURS!

by a MARGIN of THREE!

congrats!
 
I didn't say the majority is always right, I said the majority vote is what passes legislation in a Republic.

I find it really vapid that you keep touting that it was a mandate and majority wanted it without actually defending the contents of the bill.

What good is majority support if the legislation is destructive?

Of course, do you ever review legislation before you oppose it?

You bet, I've been on this issue all year.
Reading, reviewing and weighing all the possibilities.
 
yes, always

So this is the level of your review? Interesting.

massive cuts to m and m while simultaneously expanding both bankrupt entitlements

How is something simultaneously cut and expanded? Please make up your mind and get back to me on this one.

the claim to pay for TWO THIRDS of this crap by rooting out waste, fraud and abuse (LOL!)

You are opposed to rooting out waste fraud and abuse?

a quarter T doc fix, not paid for

That would be because it was not in the bill.

10 years of taxes, only 6 of benefits

That is how it was decided to responsibly pay for the program without adding to the deficit. I know it is a departure from the norm paying for things instead of just putting them on the tab as in the past, but if we are ever going to pay down the National debt, that is the way we must begin.

taxes, fines and fees on lower and middle class, small and large biz, PAYROLL, targeted industries...

No one ever said pay as you go would be easy. It will be big transition for many, but reducing the National debt is that important.

special exemptions for deadbeats like dodd and baucus and nelson and nelson and landrieu and pomeroy and the seiu...

Strictly BS charges.

mandates on individuals to buy for themselves a (prohibitively expensive) product (in the middle of a depression) from a PRIVATE company en lieu of a PUBLIC OPTION

This was to appease the conservatives. I'm ready to upgrade to a public option or single payer anytime you are!

i could go on

Allow me to fill in what you missed ~

"WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT

*Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.

*Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

*Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.

*Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.

*A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.

*Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.

*A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.

*A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011

*Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.

*Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.

*A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.

*Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.

*Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.

*An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012

*Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.

*An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.

*The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013

*A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.

*The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.

*The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.

*A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014

*State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.

*Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.

*Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

*Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.

*Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015

*Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services."
FACTBOX-US healthcare bill would provide immediate benefits | Reuters



by a MARGIN of THREE!

Actually by a margin of seven, but regardless, it was still a majority vote.

congrats!

Thanks, it is great to be proud of my country once more!
 
I find it really vapid that you keep touting that it was a mandate and majority wanted it without actually defending the contents of the bill.

The value of the bill has been discussed over a year. If you are interested in the benefits, see my last post.

What good is majority support if the legislation is destructive?

How is reducing the deficit destructive? How is providing access to health care for more people destructive?

That case was not made and the bill passed and was signed into law by the president. Its one of the best things this country has done in 50 years!

Personally, I am heartened by the fact that for the first time in decades our Representatives acted on the mandate that put them into office.

You bet, I've been on this issue all year.
Reading, reviewing and weighing all the possibilities.

Well then you should be aware that it passed by a majority and was signed into law by the president.
 
The value of the bill has been discussed over a year. If you are interested in the benefits, see my last post.

No it hasn't, this bill is very different from the one a year ago.
I guess it shows you didn't read it or about it.

Not only that but reforming a whole market sector takes time, if your so impatient about maybe you should sit it out next time.


How is reducing the deficit destructive? How is providing access to health care for more people destructive?

Says who?
As soon as they pass the doc fix that deficit reduction will go the way of the dodo.
Your not paying attention again.

That case was not made and the bill passed and was signed into law by the president. Its one of the best things this country has done in 50 years!

Personally, I am heartened by the fact that for the first time in decades our Representatives acted on the mandate that put them into office.

Talking points and romanticism.

So far you haven't presented any real evidence and have again lobbed on to the majority = right diatribe.

How Utopian you are.

Well then you should be aware that it passed by a majority and was signed into law by the president.

Translation: I can't support this bill with facts therefor I'll fall back on a logical fallacy.
 
Majority vote is how things are passed in a Republic. I will grant you it is remarkable that Representatives actually followed through on their campaign promises, making this historic victory for the people even more impressive.

Of course you may deem to stick with the "no we can't" theme if you think it will help you in the next elections.

Majority vote??????????

Majority Bribe is more like it.

Congress will never fund this next year, and we will repeal it in 2013.

Enjoy your (hollow) victory while it lasts…. You’ll really enjoy the 3rd act, that is the one where all of those bribes get a special investigator for each one, and the briber and bribed go to trial, then jail without passing go.

Good job Barry, Harry, and Nancy. :2wave:
 
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