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Thread: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

  1. #71
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    yes, always
    So this is the level of your review? Interesting.

    massive cuts to m and m while simultaneously expanding both bankrupt entitlements
    How is something simultaneously cut and expanded? Please make up your mind and get back to me on this one.

    the claim to pay for TWO THIRDS of this crap by rooting out waste, fraud and abuse (LOL!)
    You are opposed to rooting out waste fraud and abuse?

    a quarter T doc fix, not paid for
    That would be because it was not in the bill.

    10 years of taxes, only 6 of benefits
    That is how it was decided to responsibly pay for the program without adding to the deficit. I know it is a departure from the norm paying for things instead of just putting them on the tab as in the past, but if we are ever going to pay down the National debt, that is the way we must begin.

    taxes, fines and fees on lower and middle class, small and large biz, PAYROLL, targeted industries...
    No one ever said pay as you go would be easy. It will be big transition for many, but reducing the National debt is that important.

    special exemptions for deadbeats like dodd and baucus and nelson and nelson and landrieu and pomeroy and the seiu...
    Strictly BS charges.

    mandates on individuals to buy for themselves a (prohibitively expensive) product (in the middle of a depression) from a PRIVATE company en lieu of a PUBLIC OPTION
    This was to appease the conservatives. I'm ready to upgrade to a public option or single payer anytime you are!

    i could go on
    Allow me to fill in what you missed ~

    "WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT

    *Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.

    *Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

    *Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.

    *Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.

    *A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.

    *Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.

    *A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.

    *A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011

    *Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.

    *Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.

    *A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.

    *Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.

    *Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.

    *An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012

    *Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.

    *An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.

    *The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013

    *A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.

    *The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.

    *The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.

    *A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014

    *State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.

    *Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.

    *Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

    *Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.

    *Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015

    *Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services."
    FACTBOX-US healthcare bill would provide immediate benefits | Reuters



    by a MARGIN of THREE!
    Actually by a margin of seven, but regardless, it was still a majority vote.

    congrats!
    Thanks, it is great to be proud of my country once more!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #72
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I find it really vapid that you keep touting that it was a mandate and majority wanted it without actually defending the contents of the bill.
    The value of the bill has been discussed over a year. If you are interested in the benefits, see my last post.

    What good is majority support if the legislation is destructive?
    How is reducing the deficit destructive? How is providing access to health care for more people destructive?

    That case was not made and the bill passed and was signed into law by the president. Its one of the best things this country has done in 50 years!

    Personally, I am heartened by the fact that for the first time in decades our Representatives acted on the mandate that put them into office.

    You bet, I've been on this issue all year.
    Reading, reviewing and weighing all the possibilities.
    Well then you should be aware that it passed by a majority and was signed into law by the president.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #73
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The value of the bill has been discussed over a year. If you are interested in the benefits, see my last post.
    No it hasn't, this bill is very different from the one a year ago.
    I guess it shows you didn't read it or about it.

    Not only that but reforming a whole market sector takes time, if your so impatient about maybe you should sit it out next time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How is reducing the deficit destructive? How is providing access to health care for more people destructive?
    Says who?
    As soon as they pass the doc fix that deficit reduction will go the way of the dodo.
    Your not paying attention again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That case was not made and the bill passed and was signed into law by the president. Its one of the best things this country has done in 50 years!

    Personally, I am heartened by the fact that for the first time in decades our Representatives acted on the mandate that put them into office.
    Talking points and romanticism.

    So far you haven't presented any real evidence and have again lobbed on to the majority = right diatribe.

    How Utopian you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Well then you should be aware that it passed by a majority and was signed into law by the president.
    Translation: I can't support this bill with facts therefor I'll fall back on a logical fallacy.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Majority vote is how things are passed in a Republic. I will grant you it is remarkable that Representatives actually followed through on their campaign promises, making this historic victory for the people even more impressive.

    Of course you may deem to stick with the "no we can't" theme if you think it will help you in the next elections.
    Majority vote??????????

    Majority Bribe is more like it.

    Congress will never fund this next year, and we will repeal it in 2013.

    Enjoy your (hollow) victory while it lasts…. You’ll really enjoy the 3rd act, that is the one where all of those bribes get a special investigator for each one, and the briber and bribed go to trial, then jail without passing go.

    Good job Barry, Harry, and Nancy.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    No, just his response to the repubs.
    Spoken like a true Lib.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

  6. #76
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    [quote=Harry Guerrilla;1058639650]
    No it hasn't, this bill is very different from the one a year ago.
    I guess it shows you didn't read it or about it.
    Many benefits in the bill are the same as they have discussed for over a year now. I provided a post referencing the current benefits included.

    Not only that but reforming a whole market sector takes time, if your so impatient about maybe you should sit it out next time.
    I am patient, I have been waiting for decades now for America to catch up with the rest of the industrialized world. This brings us one step closer.

    As soon as they pass the doc fix that deficit reduction will go the way of the dodo.
    Your not paying attention again.
    You are presuming they will add the doc fix, and presuming they will not also add a way to pay for it.

    I think I'll just wait on the facts thank you.

    Talking points and romanticism.
    Perhaps that is what you call voter representation, I call it doing what you were elected to do.

    So far you haven't presented any real evidence and have again lobbed on to the majority = right diatribe.

    How Utopian you are.
    Evidence of what? The bill passed and has been signed into law.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #77
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Many benefits in the bill are the same as they have discussed for over a year now. I provided a post referencing the current benefits included.
    Not all of them, they have changed many things.
    That is why it's an entirely different bill.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I am patient, I have been waiting for decades now for America to catch up with the rest of the industrialized world. This brings us one step closer.
    How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are presuming they will add the doc fix, and presuming they will not also add a way to pay for it.

    I think I'll just wait on the facts thank you.
    So if they don't add the doc fix, many of these doctors will quit serving medicare patients, leaving those patients waiting long periods of time to receive treatment.

    Or they are going to do what they have done since 2002 (if I remember correctly) and do the doc fix again this year.

    You tell me whats more likely to happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Perhaps that is what you call voter representation, I call it doing what you were elected to do.
    Again, your equating populism with something being the correct course of action.
    It is a logical fallacy, might does not make right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Evidence of what? The bill passed and has been signed into law.
    That it will do all the things that they have said it would do.

    Premiums are not going down, even the democrats admit to it.
    People won't have to get insurance if they don't want it, so they will still cost us.
    It won't save money, because as well all know accounting fraud doesn't equal savings.

    You seem to be happy that it passed without knowing if it will even work.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-24-10 at 05:57 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #78
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How is something simultaneously cut and expanded?
    by enrolling millions of new members without paying for them, what a silly question

    States Sue Over Overhaul That Will Bust State Budgets (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

    You are opposed to rooting out waste fraud and abuse?
    no, of course not, what a silly question

    it's simply beyond idiocy to suggest that TWO THIRDS of all this expansion can be paid for by rooting it out

    Obama On Health Care Concerns - CBS News Video

    That would be because it was not in the bill.
    i know the DOC FIX was not in the bill, that's why obama's claims that all this is paid for are so bogus

    That is how it was decided to responsibly pay for the program without adding to the deficit.
    10 years of taxes and 6 years of benefits is responsible pay-for?

    LOL!

    I know it is a departure from the norm paying for things instead of just putting them on the tab as in the past
    actually, the front loading of revenues vs the back loading of pay-outs is how w-stands-for-what's-his-name "paid for" his medicare expansion

    ie, it's not quite the departure from the norm president pieface promised during campaign

    No one ever said pay as you go would be easy. It will be big transition for many, but reducing the National debt is that important.
    a big transition is an understatement, if you don't go out and buy that really expensive PRIVATE product under the provisions of this bill you will be DEEMED more illegal than undocumented jose

    Buy Insurance or Go to Jail? - The Note

    Strictly BS charges.
    the cornhusker kickback? the gatoraid exemption? the seiu sellout and bismarck bankjob?

    hardly

    President Obama wants side deals out of bill - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

    White House backs down on health bill deals - BostonHerald.com

    This was to appease the conservatives.
    no, the public option was removed to allow the possibility of passage

    it was opposed by way too many dems

    it was dead from the get go upstairs

    Democratic senator: Public health insurance option dead - CNN.com

    "WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT

    *Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.

    *Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

    *Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.

    *Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.

    *A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.

    *Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.

    *A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.

    *A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011

    *Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.

    *Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.

    *A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.

    *Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.

    *Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.

    *An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012

    *Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.

    *An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.

    *The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013

    *A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.

    *The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.

    *The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.

    *A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014

    *State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.

    *Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.

    *Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

    *Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.

    *Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.

    WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015

    *Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services."
    i know, there's some pretty good stuff included in the 2700 pages

    too bad it's not paid for

    too bad he didn't go about securing some of these good things in a more responsible fashion

    he wouldn't have had to THREATEN to DEEM it if he had
    Last edited by The Prof; 03-24-10 at 05:58 PM.

  9. #79
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    how do y'all feel about the replacement of the public option with this mandate on individuals, already worried sick about their jobs, already way underwater in their house payments, already unreservedly reluctant to go to a restaurant or buy a new pair of shoes, that they suddenly have to purchase a prohibitively expensive product, else go to jail?

    own up

    YOU KNEW that provision was in this bill

  10. #80
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    Re: Parliamentarian Weighing GOP Challenge to Reconciliation Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not all of them, they have changed many things.
    I didn't say all of them. But I did list the benefits of the current bill.

    How?
    We have will have a greater number of Americans with accessibility to affordable health care.

    So if they don't add the doc fix, many of these doctors will quit serving medicare patients, leaving those patients waiting long periods of time to receive treatment.
    Its all speculation. Perhaps if Doctors did that it might be the impetus for true nationalized health care.

    Or they are going to do what they have done since 2002 (if I remember correctly) and do the doc fix again this year.
    And what if they find a way to pay for it?

    You tell me whats more likely to happen.
    We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

    Again, your equating populism with something being the correct course of action.
    Such is the nature of a Republic.

    That it will do all the things that they have said it would do.

    Premiums are not going down, even the democrats admit to it.
    People won't have to get insurance if they don't want it, so they will still cost us.
    It won't save money, because as well all know accounting fraud doesn't equal savings.

    You seem to be happy that it passed without knowing if it will even work.
    I know it will work better for more people than our present system, and that it will be easier now to tweak and amend so that eventually we might have what the rest of the industrialized world has, affordable health care for all its citizens. Does that make me happy? Quite so! It has more promise than our present system, which is unsustainable. Afraid I have to go with what is sustainable and provides medical care to the most people.

    I think America has the capacity to provide for its people as well as the rest of the industrialized world.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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