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Health Care Bill has passed

justabubba said:
there have been numerous examples recited during the congressional debate about persons being denied the healthcare they needed because they were without insurance. that absence of health insurance, that resulting denial of health care, led to their demise
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I willing to bet dollars and donuts that there are more examples that had insurance and used it successfully.

Why did they redefine insurance, that most people are happy with, to help a minority of the population?
 
Don't mean to derail the thread, but I found this:

image1577.jpg


LOL.
 
Chuz Life said:
You and me Bass,...

We can make that happen.

Count me in.

Like Stinky Reid said,.. "Taxes are voluntary."
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And how exactly does THAT work? :shrug:
You dont pay your taxes..... you go to jail.

Hell I would LOOOOVE to not pay my taxes simply based on principal. But that will either give me a huge bill OR/AND put me in jail. I dont need any heat man.
 
Redress said:
I linked to that. Yes, it's 50.5 % against. About a 10 % spread.
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yes, you did

and a minus 10.5 is not much to brag about

but it's about the best anyone on the pro-obama side has come up with on this endless thread

LOL!

and, yes, indeed, the FOUR polls most recently taken, ie, ALL THOSE DONE IN THE LAST WEEK (LOL!), the average for poor president pieface is a whopping MINUS SIXTEEN!

ouch!

that's an awful lot of MINUS, don't you think?

i mean, upon which to base the radical reformation of ONE SIXTH of the united states economy

indeed, it is more than clear---president pieface and his hyper partisan pals have gone far beyond IGNORING the clearly expressed preferences and priorities of the american people

they are in open DEFIANCE

no wonder the prez wants so desperately to REPAINT his policy

washingtonpost.com

After the vote, the selling begins - Jonathan Allen and Carol E. Lee and Patrick O'Connor - POLITICO.com

Obama To Speak About Health Care In Iowa City - wcco.com
 
and never forget that the social security act of 1935 passed the house with 84% gop support and sailed thru joe robinson's senate with 76% of charles mcnary's republicans

Social Security Online - HISTORY: Vote tallies on 1935 law

medicare was backed by 43% of the minority in the lower house in 1965 and 51% in the upper

Social Security Online

and the civil rights act of 64 actually enjoyed GREATER support proportionally from gop'ers than it received from members of the party of jackson

indeed, freedom loving affiliates of the party of lincoln had to break a democrat filibuster led by the likes of richard russell and bobby kkk byrd before this fundamental footfall on the road to racial equality could go forward

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964]Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


never until today has so major and comprehensive a rewrite been CRAMMED thru a LOCKED speaker's CLOSET on purely partisan, extremist and bribe-laden lines as president pieface obama's ridiculously wrong minded and ill formed obamacare

it won't fly

you can't do major reform AGAINST the WILL of the american people

not without paying hell for the ATTEMPT

party on, progressives

rapidly over pieface's precipice
 
and he didn't even PASS it!

he DEEMED it!

LOL!

or, he might as well have

cuz that's what he SAID he was gonna do

the morning of the vote!

he was DESPERATE

even his own caucus hates this bill

they had to pass it so the presidency wouldn't EXPIRE

but it's dead now anyway, the presidency of pieface

what's he gonna do next?

comprehensive immigration?

or another reachout to iran?

maybe a nice terrorist trial downtown?

LOL!
 
TBone said:
Please share, I am looking to root for something that is non-partisan.
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It's spread out over several posts over several threads. Here's what I remember.

Health care is NOT a right. It is an option. In my plan there are "Tiers" of health insurance. NO ONE is required to purchase health care insurance, and there are no fines if you do not.

Tier 1: Public Option: this option is offered by the government at prices competitive with private insurance, or at low cost for those who have problems with affordability based on eligibility. It would be paid for through an additional tax called the "HC" tax. Folks who do not want this option, can opt out, and will either get a tax rebate for the "HC" amount, or will simply not be required to pay it, which ever is more efficient.

Tier 2: Private Option: for those who opt out of the public option. Folks can pay for private insurance, or accept their company's insurance options.

Exemptions: Under no circumstances can any illegal alien receive any kind of health insurance, public, private, or Medicare/Medicaid.

Cost offset: This is the radical, yet cornestone of my plan. If you opt out of the public option, and do not purchase a private plan, if you get ill, you MUST pay out of pocket. Under NO circumstances will the government subsidize your treatment. NO EXCEPTIONS... catastrophic illness, accident, children... NO EXCEPTIONS. The options will be there and will be affordable. You chose not to take one of them, you lose. No physician or hospital will be under any obligation to treat anyone with no ability to pay. They MAY if they choose, but they can also "opt out".

Other parts of my plan:

1) Major Tort Reform.
2) The ability to purchase health care across state lines to further stimulate competition.
3) Elimination of insurance company driven utilization review, putting all treatment decisions in the hands of the provider.
4) No pre-existing condition limitation.
5) Adult children can remain on parental health insurance until 26.
6) Centralized, independent organization reviewing/evaluating all health care insurers (including the public option) with the power to fine or even shut down.

These are broad strokes, of course, but you get the gist. The plan above should both please liberals with a public option and making health care affordable to everyone, and to conservatives with creating a system that requires personal responsibility and competition. I'd be happy to answer questions about this plan, and am open to some REASONABLE additions. If you just want to throw hysterical partisan hackery at me, don't bother responding to this post. Both HarryGurellia and LaMidRighter have seen parts or all of this and, if I recall correctly, liked what they saw.
 
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1069 said:
How much do you think an office visit and prescription drugs cost?
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I *know* how much it costs because I actually go to doctor's offices and pay for everything out of pocket. And it's nowhere near $400 for a trip to the doc, strep test, and penicillin (which is the drug of choice for strep) is cheap as ****. So I'd say about $60 - 80 for the office visit (assuming it's not a "first patient visit" which is always more expensive), $70 for the strep test, and maybe $10 for the antibiotics.

By the way, I don't consider any of this "theft", because health care is my right.
It's everyone's right.
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No, it's not. And even if it were, you don't have a right to it at my expense. So yeah, it is theft.

For the past couple of years, I've had insurance, and you know what? I can't afford to go to the doctor with it, because it's a $40 co-pay for an office visit, and then $15 for prescriptions, and I basically never have that much cash on hand to blow.
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That is no one's fault but your own.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
It's spread out over several posts over several threads. Here's what I remember.

Health care is NOT a right. It is an option. In my plan there are "Tiers" of health insurance. NO ONE is required to purchase health care insurance, and there are no fines if you do not.

Tier 1: Public Option: this option is offered by the government at prices competitive with private insurance, or at low cost for those who have problems with affordability based on eligibility. It would be paid for through an additional tax called the "HC" tax. Folks who do not want this option, can opt out, and will either get a tax rebate for the "HC" amount, or will simply not be required to pay it, which ever is more efficient.

Tier 2: Private Option: for those who opt out of the public option. Folks can pay for private insurance, or accept their company's insurance options.

Exemptions: Under no circumstances can any illegal alien receive any kind of health insurance, public, private, or Medicare/Medicaid.

Cost offset: This is the radical, yet cornestone of my plan. If you opt out of the public option, and do not purchase a private plan, if you get ill, you MUST pay out of pocket. Under NO circumstances will the government subsidize your treatment. NO EXCEPTIONS... catastrophic illness, accident, children... NO EXCEPTIONS. The options will be there and will be affordable. You chose not to take one of them, you lose. No physician or hospital will be under any obligation to treat anyone with no ability to pay. They MAY if they choose, but they can also "opt out".

Other parts of my plan:

1) Major Tort Reform.
2) The ability to purchase health care across state lines to further stimulate competition.
3) Elimination of insurance company driven utilization review, putting all treatment decisions in the hands of the provider.
4) No pre-existing condition limitation.
5) Adult children can remain on parental health insurance until 26.
6) Centralized, independent organization reviewing/evaluating all health care insurers (including the public option) with the power to fine or even shut down.

These are broad strokes, of course, but you get the gist. The plan above should both please liberals with a public option and making health care affordable to everyone, and to conservatives with creating a system that requires personal responsibility and competition. I'd be happy to answer questions about this plan, and am open to some REASONABLE additions. If you just want to throw hysterical partisan hackery at me, don't bother responding to this post. Both HarryGurellia and LaMidRighter have seen parts or all of this and, if I recall correctly, liked what they saw.
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Actually that seems pretty reasonable to me. If it was structured right, you could roll medicare and medicaid into it tier 1 pretty easily.
 
megaprogman said:
Actually that seems pretty reasonable to me. If it was structured right, you could roll medicare and medicaid into it tier 1 pretty easily.
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I didn't include that, but, ultimately, the plan would be to eliminate both Medicare and Medicaid and create "levels" in the "Tier 1" Public option. Wrap it all together to make it more efficient and under all the same clauses. Close as many loopholes as you can.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
But only if you are well off making big bucks. The rich should be grateful that they are rich enough to help others who are poor.
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You do know that this will affect at least 80% of the small businesses in the country don't you??

Just because a business has $250,000. in income, doesn't mean the owners take home that much. They may only pay themselves $40,000. a year, yet they will be tagged with this tax.

Do you think they will be inclined to hire more people after paying this tax??
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
It's spread out over several posts over several threads. Here's what I remember.

Health care is NOT a right. It is an option. In my plan there are "Tiers" of health insurance. NO ONE is required to purchase health care insurance, and there are no fines if you do not.
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This is very interesting. A few questions

Tier 1: Public Option: this option is offered by the government at prices competitive with private insurance, or at low cost for those who have problems with affordability based on eligibility. It would be paid for through an additional tax called the "HC" tax. Folks who do not want this option, can opt out, and will either get a tax rebate for the "HC" amount, or will simply not be required to pay it, which ever is more efficient.
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So only those on the public option, priced competitive with private insurance, pay for this public option? So no tax on the general public? Will it generate enough revenue to pay for members' illness. Who covers the gap in poor people having a low cost option here?

Exemptions: Under no circumstances can any illegal alien receive any kind of health insurance, public, private, or Medicare/Medicaid.

Cost offset: This is the radical, yet cornestone of my plan. If you opt out of the public option, and do not purchase a private plan, if you get ill, you MUST pay out of pocket. Under NO circumstances will the government subsidize your treatment. NO EXCEPTIONS... catastrophic illness, accident, children... NO EXCEPTIONS. The options will be there and will be affordable. You chose not to take one of them, you lose. No physician or hospital will be under any obligation to treat anyone with no ability to pay. They MAY if they choose, but they can also "opt out".
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I assume this refusal to treat the uninsured includes illegal aliens? What happens if someone shows up at the emergency room with no id and critical injuries?

4) No pre-existing condition limitation.
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So where do folks with pre-existing conditions get insurance? What will they be required to pay? I have, among other things, Diabetes 2 and Bipolar. My drug costs are $900/month. It seems I may be paying $2000/month or something for my pre-existing conditions. I cannot afford that.

My plan is similar in some respects. I eliminate Medicare and Medicaid from the federal budget and push it into the states. I establish a local/state co-op to provide insurance and medical care. Everyone pays a community tax to help pay for all the poor, old and sick with pre-existing conditions that would get insurance through the co-op. Otherwise you can opt out.
 
MC.no.spin said:
The main issue among others I have with this bill is that health care premiums will still be very expensive. Nothing (from what I have gathered) is contained in this bill to:

a. increase competition amongst insurers (such as allowing out of state insurers) which would naturally lower rates;
b. remove unnecessary mandates on what I have in my plan (I'd like a simple plan that only cover things like major illness, accidents and disease - no need for coverage on infertility treatments or sex-change operations, etc.);
c. reform tort law concerning malpractice litigation so that doctor expenses were reduced, thus lowering the cost of my premium;
d. create incentives for doctors and hospitals to focus on quality care instead of quantity care, such as through fixed fees;
e. create incentives for the individual to focus on his own quality of health through nutrition, exercise and less trips to the doctor for the consequences of poor health. I'd like to be rewarded for my optimum BMI with a tax break.

My preference is that this would be a state matter and each state would tailor their own universal health care to it's citizens.
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How can it be a state matter if you have people buying insurance across state lines and thereby nullifying state regulations?

The Stimulus Bill contained funding for e-health records which should eventually reduce medical error.

The Mayo Clinic model may become more widespread as insurance companies will no longer compete by avoiding/dropping the sick and instead will compete to deliver a product efficiently.

Finally, comparative effectiveness should give docs and consumers the info they need to avoid unnecessary testing and surgery.
Comparative Effectiveness Research Boosted in Health Care Bill - Science Careers Blog

Section 6301 of the bill establishes an independent, not-for-profit corporation, the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (PCORI)

"to assist patients, clinicians, purchasers, and policy-makers in making informed health decisions by advancing the quality and relevance of evidence concerning the manner in which diseases, disorders, and other health conditions can effectively and appropriately be prevented, diagnosed, treated, monitored, and managed through research and evidence synthesis that considers variations in patient subpopulations, and the dissemination of research findings with respect to the relative health outcomes, clinical effectiveness, and appropriateness of the medical treatments, services, ... "


PCORI would be funded by a Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund, financed by transfers beginning in 2013 from two other federal medical trust funds. The use of a trust fund for financing helps protect the institute from day-to-day political considerations in funding decisions.
 
Gill said:
You do know that this will affect at least 80% of the small businesses in the country don't you??

Just because a business has $250,000. in income, doesn't mean the owners take home that much. They may only pay themselves $40,000. a year, yet they will be tagged with this tax.

Do you think they will be inclined to hire more people after paying this tax??
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They will hire as many people as needed to maximize profits. Economics 101. Taxes have nothing to do with the size of a companies workforce. Demand and productivity do. Just more republican scare tactics.
 
USA-1 said:
They will hire as many people as needed to maximize profits. Economics 101. Taxes have nothing to do with the size of a companies workforce. Demand and productivity do. Just more republican scare tactics.
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It is painfully obvious that you have never run a business. If the business owner has to pay more to the government, he has less to pay for new employees.

THAT is Economics 101.
 
PAYROLL TAXES have nothing to do with the size of workforce

LOL!

LOLOLOL!
 
USA-1 said:
They will hire as many people as needed to maximize profits. Economics 101. Taxes have nothing to do with the size of a companies workforce. Demand and productivity do. Just more republican scare tactics.
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You are kidding right?


Tell me what did your business make last year? :ssst:
 
STILL not a single serious response to the foundational question underlying the major PROBLEM with this PIG of a bill...

how can you EXPAND m and m by 31 mil at the same time you CUT their funding by HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS?

wellness and prevention?

LOL!

waste, fraud and abuse?

LOLOL!

e-health?

LOLOLOL!

the obamite apologists in this forum follow FAIRY TALES

pathetic
 
and he couldn't even PASS it!

he had to DEEM it!

or, he might as well have

that's all anyone heard him talking about FOR A WEEK before passage

including up to the MORNING OF THE VOTE!

LOL!

pathetic

party on, progressives

and such a GOOD JOB you do of "defending" this PIG of a bill
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
You are kidding right?


Tell me what did your business make last year? :ssst:
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You do know that the tax is on profits don't you? Companies adjust their workforce levels to meet demand to maximize profits. State, local and federal taxes fluctuate constantly. Companies don't set their workforce according to taxes but according to need. You should take an economics course too. You'll never learn economics from Glenn Beck.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
It's spread out over several posts over several threads. Here's what I remember.

Health care is NOT a right. It is an option. In my plan there are "Tiers" of health insurance. NO ONE is required to purchase health care insurance, and there are no fines if you do not.

Tier 1: Public Option: this option is offered by the government at prices competitive with private insurance, or at low cost for those who have problems with affordability based on eligibility. It would be paid for through an additional tax called the "HC" tax. Folks who do not want this option, can opt out, and will either get a tax rebate for the "HC" amount, or will simply not be required to pay it, which ever is more efficient.

Tier 2: Private Option: for those who opt out of the public option. Folks can pay for private insurance, or accept their company's insurance options.

Exemptions: Under no circumstances can any illegal alien receive any kind of health insurance, public, private, or Medicare/Medicaid.

Cost offset: This is the radical, yet cornestone of my plan. If you opt out of the public option, and do not purchase a private plan, if you get ill, you MUST pay out of pocket. Under NO circumstances will the government subsidize your treatment. NO EXCEPTIONS... catastrophic illness, accident, children... NO EXCEPTIONS. The options will be there and will be affordable. You chose not to take one of them, you lose. No physician or hospital will be under any obligation to treat anyone with no ability to pay. They MAY if they choose, but they can also "opt out".

Other parts of my plan:

1) Major Tort Reform.
2) The ability to purchase health care across state lines to further stimulate competition.
3) Elimination of insurance company driven utilization review, putting all treatment decisions in the hands of the provider.
4) No pre-existing condition limitation.
5) Adult children can remain on parental health insurance until 26.
6) Centralized, independent organization reviewing/evaluating all health care insurers (including the public option) with the power to fine or even shut down.

These are broad strokes, of course, but you get the gist. The plan above should both please liberals with a public option and making health care affordable to everyone, and to conservatives with creating a system that requires personal responsibility and competition. I'd be happy to answer questions about this plan, and am open to some REASONABLE additions. If you just want to throw hysterical partisan hackery at me, don't bother responding to this post. Both HarryGurellia and LaMidRighter have seen parts or all of this and, if I recall correctly, liked what they saw.
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What you are proposing was in large part the original plan that couldn't garner enough support from blue dogs or Republicans. I agree. This makes more sense than the current bill, but thanks to the obstructionists that fought against any reform we got the watered down version rather than the original concepts.
 
USA-1 said:
You do know that the tax is on profits don't you? Companies adjust their workforce levels to meet demand to maximize profits. State, local and federal taxes fluctuate constantly. Companies don't set their workforce according to taxes but according to need. You should take an economics course too. You'll never learn economics from Glenn Beck.
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I don't watch beck, I think he's a goofball. :shrug:



I'll ask you again:


You are kidding right?


Tell me what did your business make last year?
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When taxes go up, and in a down economy, we "maximize" our eficciency, pay less, offer less, hire less.....
 
slip sliding away

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - CNN poll: Majority disapprove of Obama for first time - Blogs from CNN.com

when a president's disapprovals exceed 40% he's got trouble

cnn actually points it up quite particularly

americans' feelings towards their presidents are uniquely personal, he becomes very familiar, ie, almost a part of the family

americans are extremely reluctant to dump on their president personally

americans LIKE president pieface as a man

you know how personal popularity is gonna impact perceptions of job performance---if you like someone you are less prone to say unkind things

americans like this president, he's a nice guy, good

but the majority of them SAY he's doing a CRAPPY job

the reality is therefore WORSE than the numbers

when a president's negatives top 40% he's always in BIG trouble

for the personal reasons outlined above
 
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Navy Pride said:
If you don't drive a car you don't need car insurance my left wing friend........In regards to helath insurance you have no choice....You will buy it or pay a fine........try again..........
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I thought, of all people, you would be one to appreciate that. You wanna keep paying for the people leeching on society? Why should my insurance rates and taxes go up because the guy down the street isn't responsible enough to carry his own health insurance?

Methinks, had the GOP suggested this, you'd be all over it. But I could be wrong. :3oops:
 
USA-1 said:
You do know that the tax is on profits don't you? Companies adjust their workforce levels to meet demand to maximize profits. State, local and federal taxes fluctuate constantly. Companies don't set their workforce according to taxes but according to need. You should take an economics course too. You'll never learn economics from Glenn Beck.
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You are showing your lack of business knowledge with every post. Taxes are a known quantity, except in the rare case when Congress makes a change. If they changed constantly, the accounting software people would be the ones getting rich. As it is, they supply tax updates for their software yearly, which is sufficient.

The tax is on taxable income of the business owner's personal tax statement.
 
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