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Health Care Bill has passed

Catawba said:
Has anyone heard of Rush Limbaugh's travel plans now?

His bag appears to be packed ~

sm-suitcase581762.jpg


I'm even willing to give him a drive to the airport!
Click to expand...

Your post might be interesting if it resembled even remotely what Limbaugh said.
 
What will this lead to when it comes to state legal medical weed? What is next? Drug tests for all Americans?
 
dirtpoorchris said:
What will this lead to when it comes to state legal medical weed?
Click to expand...
It will probably lead to your door getting kicked in and your dog shot as soon as the DEA finds out about your stash. You know, federalism and all that.

If you're lucky they will just raid your neighbor's house by accident instead.
 
Why Republicans fear Obama's Health Care Reform ~

"It is not that they think this legislation is the political kiss of death; it's that, in their hearts, they're terrified that it will be a rousing success.

There is a reason why all of the United States' major economic rivals and trading partners are years ahead of us on this. Their people have embraced the proposition that fundamental healthcare should be part of the social safety net. Indeed, the Republicans recognized this, when they were in power, when adding the prescription drug benefit to Medicare. And they show it in their passionate resistance, these last 12 months, to Obama's proposal to curb Medicare spending.

The Democratic plan is congressional sausage, and has some undeniably unappetizing elements. But, based on the experience of the rest of the industrial world, I think we have begun a transition to a government-regulated, privately administered healthcare system in which affordable and universal healthcare is a given. There will be a base of care, that everyone can get, and if you want to spend more for Cadillac care, you'll be able to do that too. Money has always talked in America.

And in another 20 years, our kids will look back and wonder what the fuss was all about."
Why Republicans Fear Obama's Healthcare Reform - John A. Farrell (usnews.com)
 
My feelings are echoed by Conservative columnist Ross Douthat.

As a conservative, I suspect they’re wrong. But now that the bill has passed, as a citizen of the United States, I dearly hope they’re right.
Click to expand...
 
The Repukicans and Conservatives played this the wrong way from the beginning. Their idea was to lambast Obama and the Democracks with non-substantive accusations, such as "communist, stalinist, europhile, etc" until it the issue faded away. When presented with the question of who is going to be captain of the health-care legislation the Republican approach was simply to call Democrats and Obama names, and stall the debate as much as possible.

Some of the more pragmatic elements of the Righteous Right decided to take up the Tea Party call, and began associating themselves with the grass roots campaign that applied the simple third party logic that "what the government is doing, the people don't want them to do". Unfortunately for these who take the spirit of the founding fathers dead seriously, they forget the simple fact that most Americans are not among those that the Founding Fathers found decent enough pass legislation; there are mechanisms in our Government to keep the masses from making decisions.
 
danarhea said:
The way I see it, Republicans should not have gone down the road of misrepresentations and attacks. IMHO, this is what killed their attempts to stop this bill, which I agree is bad. Also, IMHO, the Tea Partiers are an albatross around the neck of the GOP, and tonight's vote is proof of that.
Click to expand...

what you're saying would be true if this bill were passed by and approved by a majority of the american people

it wasn't

it was forced thru by 219 individuals, all members of the party in power, who were pressured beyond all measure by their leaders

we saw what the american people feel about this bill in massachusetts

in virginia and jersey

in all the polls

the american people, by and large, HATE this bill

and the INTENSITY of their feelings probably even dwarfs their huge numbers

look at the "supporters" and "defenders" of this bill on THIS VERY THREAD

even they don't really like it, they support it for the same reasons stupak and half the progressives did---to try to save this presidency from complete defeat

well, now they own it, and there will be hell to pay

look how obama today is out trying to SELL this bill, what's that tell you

he's trying to REVERSE america's perception of obamacare

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/21/AR2010032103130.html?hpid=topnews

in the last month we have gone from a white house which arrogantly IGNORES the clearly expressed will of the american people to a 1600 pennsylvania that outright DEFIES us

this is all done at the party's peril

the prez may even get a small, short term bump in his approvals for the perception of his having gotten something done

but the house and the senate are gonna crash

and when junior learns that he's suddenly more illegal than jose just because our boy here has no coverage...

and the long term realization---YOU CANNOT MASSIVELY EXPAND MEDICARE AND MEDICAID WHILE SIMULTAENOUSLY CUTTING BOTH ALREADY OVERSTRAINED ENTITLEMENTS BY HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS

that's bedrock

this is what underlies the pessimism even of the obamites on this thread

THE CLAIM TO FUND TWO THIRDS OF THIS MASSIVE EXPANSION BY RECOVERING WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE IS AN INSULT TO EVERY HALFWAY INTELLIGENT AMERICAN

the negatives on this bill are huge and PERMANENT

americans are completely repulsed that their president and congress have so little RESPECT for their sentiments

i hear a-g-e-n-d-a in your observations about tea and cons, i don't think your remarks particularly apply to this exact situation, tho they might fit better elsewhere

my take

party on, progressives

the house and senate are MINE
 
Getting back to Defensive Medicine.

Back in the 70's my mother passed away due to doctor negligence. He failed to follow up on symptoms with standardized testing that was available at the time. Had he practiced defensive medicine she would have lived. (yes we sued and won)
I have no pity for bad doctors and the sooner they get out of the field the better. Just as i have no pity for bad drivers who don't practice defensive driving.
 
I hope I'm wrong about what this health care means, what the Democrats are going to continue to do, how it will affect private industry and the economy, etc. If all my fears turn out unfounded and it works, great, I was wrong.

HOWEVER...

HOPING that it somehow actually works and expecting it to are two different things. HOPING that it somehow works and believing its likely are two different things. HOPING that it somehow works but taking steps, be it in campaigning or in voting, to try and overturn it are two different things.

As an American, I hope and pray that my fears about this that are founded in fact and analysis prove to not be true. Additionally, as an American, I am not going to rest on my laurels simply out of HOPE that something I sincerely think won't work actually will, gambling with this countries foundation and principles on nothing but mindless HOPE.
 
the party hopes that by passing this pig their presidency will be rescued

but just wait til he ASKS them to do ONE MORE THING for him

cap and trade?

they're gonna go shrieking and screaming in an opposite direction like some kinda specimans freed from a gary larson cartoon

immigration reform?

not anything like what he, rahm and the ax prefer

yet obama is so out-of-touch, he'll probably steer his immigration legislation in an extremely la raza direction

in which case, he will NEVER GET HIS PARTY EVEN TO NEAR A CLIFF again, let alone jump

the point---they think by passing this they've saved their white house

they haven't

you can't rescue an administration with legislation the people hate

these things should be obvious

but they're not, not to the most incompetent political leadership america has ever produced
 
Zyphlin said:
As an American, I hope and pray that my fears about this that are founded in fact and analysis prove to not be true. Additionally, as an American, I am not going to rest on my laurels simply out of HOPE that something I sincerely think won't work actually will, gambling with this countries foundation and principles on nothing but mindless HOPE.
Click to expand...
We elected nothing but a boatload of HOPE in 2008. Really we're being governed about like we deserve for that massive **** up.
 
The Prof said:
they think by passing this they've saved their white house

they haven't

you can't rescue an administration with legislation the people hate

these things should be obvious
Click to expand...

From the horse's ... uh.... mouth:

"you can't govern without the consent of the governed" - OBAMA
 
The Prof said:
the party hopes that by passing this pig their presidency will be rescued

but just wait til he ASKS them to do ONE MORE THING for him

cap and trade?

they're gonna go shrieking and screaming in an opposite direction like some kinda specimans freed from a gary larson cartoon

immigration reform?

not anything like what he, rahm and the ax prefer

yet obama is so out-of-touch, he'll probably steer his immigration legislation in an extremely la raza direction

in which case, he will NEVER GET HIS PARTY EVEN TO NEAR A CLIFF again, let alone jump

the point---they think by passing this they've saved their white house

they haven't

you can't rescue an administration with legislation the people hate

these things should be obvious

but they're not, not to the most incompetent political leadership america has ever produced
Click to expand...

I thought you said the Healthcare bill was dead? :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
 
Arch Enemy said:
Some of the more pragmatic elements of the Righteous Right decided to take up the Tea Party call, and began associating themselves with the grass roots campaign that applied the simple third party logic that "what the government is doing, the people don't want them to do". Unfortunately for these who take the spirit of the founding fathers dead seriously, they forget the simple fact that most Americans are not among those that the Founding Fathers found decent enough pass legislation; there are mechanisms in our Government to keep the masses from making decisions.
Click to expand...

Actually the Religious Right isnt too happy with the direction of the Tea Parties either

Tea parties stir evangelicals' fears - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com
 
This thing that gets me is even if Dems lose the Senate and much of the House margin later this year, we can't do anything with Obama in office. In 2012, let's say more Dems go, can it be enough to overturn this turd? You better believe that there is no such thing as a filibuster anymore. It's all reconciliation now.

What will it take to overturn?
 
reefedjib said:
This thing that gets me is even if Dems lose the Senate and much of the House margin later this year, we can't do anything with Obama in office. In 2012, let's say more Dems go, can it be enough to overturn this turd? You better believe that there is no such thing as a filibuster anymore. It's all reconciliation now.

What will it take to overturn?
Click to expand...

Eight years at max.

If this bill turns out to be the anti-thesis of democracy, then surely the next candidate will run on reducing the bill.
 
TheNextEra said:
I thought you said the Healthcare bill was dead? :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
Click to expand...

To be fair... When Prof said health care was dead (many times in many posts), he didn't mean on this plane of reality.
 
The Prof said:
what you're saying would be true if this bill were passed by and approved by a majority of the american people

it wasn't

it was forced thru by 219 individuals, all members of the party in power, who were pressured beyond all measure by their leaders

we saw what the american people feel about this bill in massachusetts

in virginia and jersey

in all the polls

the american people, by and large, HATE this bill

and the INTENSITY of their feelings probably even dwarfs their huge numbers

look at the "supporters" and "defenders" of this bill on THIS VERY THREAD

even they don't really like it, they support it for the same reasons stupak and half the progressives did---to try to save this presidency from complete defeat

well, now they own it, and there will be hell to pay

look how obama today is out trying to SELL this bill, what's that tell you

he's trying to REVERSE america's perception of obamacare

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/21/AR2010032103130.html?hpid=topnews

in the last month we have gone from a white house which arrogantly IGNORES the clearly expressed will of the american people to a 1600 pennsylvania that outright DEFIES us

this is all done at the party's peril

the prez may even get a small, short term bump in his approvals for the perception of his having gotten something done

but the house and the senate are gonna crash

and when junior learns that he's suddenly more illegal than jose just because our boy here has no coverage...

and the long term realization---YOU CANNOT MASSIVELY EXPAND MEDICARE AND MEDICAID WHILE SIMULTAENOUSLY CUTTING BOTH ALREADY OVERSTRAINED ENTITLEMENTS BY HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS

that's bedrock

this is what underlies the pessimism even of the obamites on this thread

THE CLAIM TO FUND TWO THIRDS OF THIS MASSIVE EXPANSION BY RECOVERING WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE IS AN INSULT TO EVERY HALFWAY INTELLIGENT AMERICAN

the negatives on this bill are huge and PERMANENT

americans are completely repulsed that their president and congress have so little RESPECT for their sentiments

i hear a-g-e-n-d-a in your observations about tea and cons, i don't think your remarks particularly apply to this exact situation, tho they might fit better elsewhere

my take

party on, progressives

the house and senate are MINE
Click to expand...
since your take was that the bill was dead, should we consider the claim that the house and senate are yours to be iffy at best?
 
MC.no.spin said:
I'd like to get that figured clarified - I was just listening to Rush and he said the figure is 2% of your income or $2,000 a year, which ever is greater. That is all I know about it.
Click to expand...

• Require U.S. citizens and legal residents to
have qualifying health coverage. Those without
coverage pay a tax penalty of the greater of
$695 per year up to a maximum of three times
that amount ($2,085) per family or 2.5% of
household income. The penalty will be phasedin
according to the following schedule: $95
in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for
the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014,
2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5%
of taxable income in 2016. Beginning after
2016, the penalty will be increased annually
by the cost-of-living adjustment. Exemptions
will be granted for financial hardship,
religious objections, American Indians, those
without coverage for less than three months,
undocumented immigrants, incarcerated
individuals, those for whom the lowest cost
plan option exceeds 8% of an individual’s
income, and those with incomes below the
tax filing threshold (in 2009 the threshold for
taxpayers under age 65 was $9,350 for singles
and $18,700 for couples).
Click to expand...
page 2 of this document, provided by another forumite, earlier
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/housesenatebill_final.pdf
 
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