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Health Care Bill has passed

When I worked at a hospital (15 years ago), indemnity policies were the gold standard. Patients who had them never had to worry about treatment being cut or problems with payments. Indemnity policies, to me, are still the gold standard. Easy, great coverage, and no insurance company interaction. Why have they been phased out? Two reasons, but both are from the same animal: GREED. Insurance companies found that by using HMOs they could control things far better. They could cut coverage, cut authorizations, cut services, and make things all around more difficult for providers and subscribers in the hope that if things are difficult enough, people will just give up. However, providers are not blameless. Over billing, double billing, fraudulent billing, and keeping a patient for longer than necessary milked the insurance industry. Change needed to happen What I would like to see would be indemnity policies with provider reviews. The reviews, however, are based solely on the recommendations of the provider. Back in the day, there were no reviews at all. This is where the problems occurred. Now, the reviews are insurance company driven, not provider driven. If the provider can show medical need, then there should be no issue. Nowadays, this is not always the case.

Bravo. Well-said. Find me an insurance company that relishes the idea of paying out a claim. Anywhere. Anytime. Anyplace. Car, Home, or Person.
The problem is the industry. Doctors gouge their patients in an selfish effort to get rich, and to "outdo" their colleagues, and quite often have "deals" with drug companies, and order unnecessary tests and procedures, in quid quo pros with hospitals. Providers, even non-profit hospitals, such as The Methodist Hospital, in Houston, "lie" and have profit, and cater to high end patients with luxury items and accomodations, the latest (and expensive) cutting edge equipment and procedures, DRG's (thus limiting hospital stays), while their board of directors collect huge salaries, like bankers.
How is it that insurance and drug companies can spend millions on lobbying, but can't lower the costs of premiums or drugs ( at huge profit margins) , yet, challenge doctor-ordered treatment and therapy at every turn????
How is it their CEO's and board of directors have obscene salaries????
I, too worked in the healthcare and insurance (charge recovery) industries for almost 20 years.
 
I will vote in Nov for no other reason than to vote *against* the my "representatives" who voted for this bull****. I'm normally only a Presidential election voter, because I just move around too much to vote locally. I will make an exception this year.
 
I will vote in Nov for no other reason than to vote *against* the my "representatives" who voted for this bull****. I'm normally only a Presidential election voter, because I just move around too much to vote locally. I will make an exception this year.

You should make it a rule.
 
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I will vote in Nov for no other reason than to vote *against* the my "representatives" who voted for this bull****. I'm normally only a Presidential election voter, because I just move around too much to vote locally. I will make an exception this year.

I am equally guilty of not voting. Those social conservatives just stick in my craw. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Who the hell am I supposed to vote for? If we vote in Republicans to a majority for fiscal conservative reasons, you know they are going to pass some socially conservative bull****.
 
I am not sure if I am happy that it passed or not. Overall, I think it will have almost no effect on my life and I don't think it will do much to arrest the rising cost of health care and insurance from year to year. On the other hand, it looks like it will help many who are worse off than I am, so I am happy for those guys.

Overall, I feel pretty neutral about the whole thing. A lot of that is probably fatigue from the battle taking so long though.
 
Can we start the secret plot of killing grandparents and eating babies yet?
 
Can we start the secret plot of killing grandparents and eating babies yet?

Shhhhhhhhh. You remember the plan, thats after the communist brown shirts take over the statue of liberty and open the way for the muslim take over of Kansas. :shock: I have said too much already.
 
Sadly I expected to see this news when I woke up, the writing was on the wall last night when Stupak stupidly, and transparently, allowed the toothless promise by Obama about an Executive Order to deny funding going to abortions.

I had gone on record of saying I would not vote for a birther-enabling candidate like Sarah Palin, and have had no problem voting 3rd party before. That's not happening this time out. If this thing has done anything is it's assured me I will vote straight ballot the next two elections. History has shown what happens when we create entitlement programs and the enormity of the difficulty of removing them. The only shot is 2012 prior to most of it being rolled out (but not before we start feeling the pain from it). That alone is reason enough to stomach whatever unsavory traits a Republican candidate may have.

I don't know where to begin with my displeasure on this. The idiotic notion that private business is inherently corrupt but somehow government isn't? That this is going to end up in 10 or 20 years landing us in the same trouble we're currently at with Social Security? That history tells us that CBO score for an entitlement program is likely to be incredibly off. That the fine system makes it idiotic for businesses to actually provide insurance to their employee's in terms of cost, setting the obvious situation up where more people become uninsured and we hear the call for needing the government to step in to fix the problem those greedy businesses caused. That we have likely turned medicare into a bottom of the barrel program with many doctors likely to opt. That the "biparitsanship" involved in this was no where, despite what hyper partisan liberals were scream about, from the very beginning when Republicans weren't brought into the closed door meanings and we were told bipartisanship generally meant "Just get on board with whatever we the democrats want" which started the fierce oposition ith no give. That this doesn't actually address many of the root causes of the health care issues we have in this country.

But no, pretty sure the thing that bothers me the most about it is the one that's bothered me the most throughout. If there is one thing this country's government has shown us, time and time again, regardless of whose in power, is that congress will expand its power and its territory every chance it gets using any loophole or any backward bending manuever they have to to do it. They capitalize on any and everything they can to slip through constitutional cracks to decide that something is in the interest of the congress to oversee. The more you extend health care to everyone, the more you interject the government into the health care, the larger argument you give congress to state that your body is THEIR business. It DISGUSTS me that you have the pro-choicers who, based on this I now truly wonder of their sincerity, rant about how its "their body their choice" and yet are willfully running into the arms of it being the your body, the governments choice.

Perhaps a bit hyperbole but to steal a line from the 1st lady...

For (one of) the first time in my lifetime I am ashamed of my country.
 
The true battle will begin when the States reject the Socialist/Marxist Obama agenda.

It could lead to more problems and divisions than have been seen since 1861.

Over 20 States have talked about refusing to go along and with the vast majority of the PEOPLE saying no this, Obama may find he is the cause of something more than even he and his minions bargained for.

Some Texans are looking for a reason/excuse for cessation and just the serious consideration will be awful.

This Phony Health Plan along with the needless waste of money on it along with the equally PHONY reasons for Car and Trade may be the start of the resurrection of the Declaration of Independence.



Forcing this on an unwilling majority the way it has been done with lies and bribery threats and intimidation falls into the quote I just cited.

I hope that cooler heads prevail until the Nov. elections when we have a chance to correct the massive errors that have just taken place.

Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.

You seem to have a low regard for the ability of Americans to see themselves as united enough to run a government.

I do not share your feeling, and I consider it hysterics fed by an exciting night of American politics.
 
November will be my first chance to vote for my House representative for my district. I will definitely be voting Republican just to oust Democrat Jim Cooper who voted for this legislation.
 
Bravo. Well-said. Find me an insurance company that relishes the idea of paying out a claim. Anywhere. Anytime. Anyplace. Car, Home, or Person.
The problem is the industry. Doctors gouge their patients in an selfish effort to get rich, and to "outdo" their colleagues, and quite often have "deals" with drug companies, and order unnecessary tests and procedures, in quid quo pros with hospitals. Providers, even non-profit hospitals, such as The Methodist Hospital, in Houston, "lie" and have profit, and cater to high end patients with luxury items and accomodations, the latest (and expensive) cutting edge equipment and procedures, DRG's (thus limiting hospital stays), while their board of directors collect huge salaries, like bankers.
How is it that insurance and drug companies can spend millions on lobbying, but can't lower the costs of premiums or drugs ( at huge profit margins) , yet, challenge doctor-ordered treatment and therapy at every turn????
How is it their CEO's and board of directors have obscene salaries????
I, too worked in the healthcare and insurance (charge recovery) industries for almost 20 years.

Well said by you and the Captain. Yet, people want to protect this mess. Many GOP want to protect the corporations and insurance companies and special interest groups that continue to gouge us.

I have a case where my wife's cousin, who comes from a religously conservative family, who are dead-set against anything democratic, was diagnoised with mulitple myolomia (sic). He is a fire fighter, ex marine, with 3 you children. His insurance will not pay for a bone marrow trans?, and the hospital will not do it unless he comes up with 500K. Now we as a family have to come with the 500k to give this man a trans? He is a working member of society, who has served his country and his community, WHO HAS INSURANCE, yet, his health insurance provider can deny him coverage.

Something is wrong with this picture. Health care reform will hopefully stop and protect us, who work, contribute, etc.
 
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Well said, Zyphlin. Especially about Congress expanding their control.

I had gone on record of saying I would not vote for a birther-enabling candidate like Sarah Palin, and have had no problem voting 3rd party before. That's not happening this time out. If this thing has done anything is it's assured me I will vote straight ballot the next two elections. History has shown what happens when we create entitlement programs and the enormity of the difficulty of removing them. The only shot is 2012 prior to most of it being rolled out (but not before we start feeling the pain from it). That alone is reason enough to stomach whatever unsavory traits a Republican candidate may have.

I'll repeat what I just posted:

"Those social conservatives just stick in my craw. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Who the hell am I supposed to vote for? If we vote in Republicans to a majority for fiscal conservative reasons, you know they are going to pass some socially conservative bull****."
 
I'll repeat what I just posted:

"Those social conservatives just stick in my craw. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Who the hell am I supposed to vote for? If we vote in Republicans to a majority for fiscal conservative reasons, you know they are going to pass some socially conservative bull****."

History has shown us that social programs are far easier to repeal and pull back on than entitlement programs which are generally harder to repeal the larger they are.

History has also shown us recently that even with a majority in government some of the largest and most troublesome social conservative acts, like amending the constitution to LIMIT freedom, fails because its unlikely for a republcian majority to be so bent to the extreme.

Finally, the other biggest issue for social conservatives (abortion) can't really have anything large done to it until such a time happens that Roe v. Wade is over turned which I don't think will happen anytime soon.

To me, its a gamble, but one where the odds are far better that whatever bad the Republicans voted in may do will likely be less than what this bill will do.
 
Remember that plan we had? I was telling it to one of my libertarian friends, and he said the same thing you did. I should be President.

Unfortunately, you're right. It was intelligent, bipartisan, and no one would have listened.

Please share, I am looking to root for something that is non-partisan.
 
Oh no, I am stating reality. As the heavy had of your centralized government keeps enacting more Socialist laws, I will keep right on working, paying for your government freebies!!!
I know that I sleep sounder with you covering for me.

YeeHaw!
 
History has shown us that social programs are far easier to repeal and pull back on than entitlement programs which are generally harder to repeal the larger they are.

History has also shown us recently that even with a majority in government some of the largest and most troublesome social conservative acts, like amending the constitution to LIMIT freedom, fails because its unlikely for a republcian majority to be so bent to the extreme.

Finally, the other biggest issue for social conservatives (abortion) can't really have anything large done to it until such a time happens that Roe v. Wade is over turned which I don't think will happen anytime soon.

To me, its a gamble, but one where the odds are far better that whatever bad the Republicans voted in may do will likely be less than what this bill will do.

Those are good points. Only some of the Republicans are so socially conservative so it is hard to get a voting majority. Add to that that those laws are less harmful than a new entitlement.

So what kinds of things can be done to overturn this healthcare law? I am assuming they pass the reconciliation bill and break the filibuster that way...GOP won't have to respect the filibuster. But they do need the Presidency or a veto proof majority....So, 2012 is it.
 
It's a crying shame that our "elected representatives" would go against the will of the people and pass this load of crap.
They didn't. The will of the people elected Obama and all of the Congressional officials who voted in favor of it.

This is one more nail in the coffin of the United States of America.
I think of it more like the hammer pulling the nails out of our coffin.

This is socialism, plain and simple.
So is our police force, fire department, public libraries, schools, mail, military, justice system, public roads, etc etc :roll:

Our government is destroying this country from the inside out.
Depends on who's in power.

This will devastate our economy and put even more people out of work, not to mention what this will add to our outrageous and out of control deficit.
Eh? I disagree on that one.

Let's hope this gets shot down on Constitutional grounds and soon.
Let's hope not and say we did.
 
I hate the bill but at least the plan created tens of thousands of jobs when they staff the fed and state beuracracies to run the dam thing...at least the Dems got something good out of this. Ramming a humongous bill through congress on behalf of 32 million in spite of the resistance shown from most of the remaining I think 300 plus million is the epitome of governing by the minority. This is unfortunate and irresponsible. This is a representative government (supposedly) and the Dems have acted on behalf of the minority which I think/hope will bite them in the ass in November. There were so many other good ideas to reduce the cost of healthcare but they wouldn't have made history. Good going Nancy and oh you too Barack.
 
I hate the bill but at least the plan created tens of thousands of jobs when they staff the fed and state beuracracies to run the dam thing...at least the Dems got something good out of this. Ramming a humongous bill through congress on behalf of 32 million in spite of the resistance shown from most of the remaining I think 300 plus million is the epitome of governing by the minority.
Read up on James Madison's "Tyranny of the Majority" viewpoints?

This is unfortunate and irresponsible. This is a representative government (supposedly) and the Dems have acted on behalf of the minority which I think/hope will bite them in the ass in November.
I don't. If anyone has a problem with the bill, then they have themselves to thank for voting the congressional officials who voted in favor of it into office.

There were so many other good ideas to reduce the cost of healthcare but they wouldn't have made history. Good going Nancy and oh you too Barack.
I never heard any alternative plans from the right, just cries of "socialism", "death panels", "statism", "elitism" etc etc etc. If there were any alternate proposals, then they got lost in between all of the fearmongering.
 
This will devastate our economy and put even more people out of work, not to mention what this will add to our outrageous and out of control deficit.
Eh? I disagree on that one.

You must be joking. You don't see this is going to repress the free market? You don't see that this is going to add $200 billion a year to the deficit?
 
You must be joking. You don't see this is going to repress the free market? You don't see that this is going to add $200 billion a year to the deficit?
I think it will pan out somehow. Like the bill or hate it, "socialised" healthcare hasn't devastated the economies of the European countries that have similar plans.
 
I think it will pan out somehow. Like the bill or hate it, "socialised" healthcare hasn't devastated the economies of the European countries that have similar plans.

You do realize the tax rates they pay in Europe and the corresponding lackluster performance on their private sectors, don't you? Where we were falling by 2.5% GDP a year in the recession, they were falling by 8%.
 
You do realize the tax rates they pay in Europe and the corresponding lackluster performance on their private sectors, don't you? Where we were falling by 2.5% GDP a year in the recession, they were falling by 8%.
They don't seem to have to pay as much as we do to afford the same standards of living, so it works out pretty good from what I hear. Like in the 1950s US - taxes were higher, but your dollar went for a lot more.
 
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