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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #901
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Yeah, that's who wrote it and he has a public option. That works for me. I was confused over how he intends to pay for it, though.

    Here it is: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058635538
    You would have to have a similar model to insurance companies, in other words some investment from unused funds, you would have to have reserve funds, and it would have to be run like a business because it would have a self funding mechanism. It would have to have a risk analysis department, and most of all, politicians would have to be told "hands off!" The overall point is, without legit reform neither this nor nothing else can work. Fundamental fixes are the only option, however this idea has been shelved at the moment.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't know how you should define it but I wouldn't say that 90% of the poor really aren't poor. This is especially true with all of the long term job losses in this recession. We have to cover the poor - the uninsured with no savings, because they lived paycheck to paycheck.
    We have to change that behavior, not encourage the same.
    Figuring out how to do that is one of the most important things.

    People need to learn to not live paycheck to check, to build a savings.


    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Actually, many elderly can afford it, you are correct. There are many elderly who would be considered poor, that would need covering. Plus the fact that their care needs are so great they could be considered sick - high incidence of health care utilization.

    We also promised them Medicare.
    I do agree that some are very low income.
    I don't have a problem helping them, but we have to make sure it doesn't turn into a lifestyle subsidy.


    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    We have a disagreement. People with Diabetes should absolutely be covered. Type 1s are not obese - they cannot process sugar at all and risk hyperglycemia without Insulin and hypoglycemia with Insulin - both deadly. Type 2 has high IR, thought to perhaps be caused by obesity or thought to actually cause obesity. I am Type 2. I cannot control my Diabetes by diet and exercise alone. I take 90 units of Insulin a day, which is a lot. I am still not well controlled. I will lose my eyesight, have severe pain in my legs prior to amputation, possibly have renal failure and other Neuropathy effects. I take $900 or medications a month. I got rejected for pre-existing conditions several times. I am sick. Luckily I have a job and group coverage. Without, I would be screwed....was screwed.

    I do not like your overly restrictive definition of what counts for sick.
    Do you consider diabetes to be a disability?
    I'd say it's a sickness but not a disability.

    A lot of people can benefit from diet control diabetes management.
    I don't know your specific case, so I'm not saying whether or not you can.
    The point is, though, that people aren't making life changes to adjust for these problems or changes to prevent them.

    As an example, a guy I work with(in his 50's) has high blood pressure and complains about the cost of his medicine.
    He smokes and drinks lots of salty soft drinks.
    He could, in theory, help his high blood pressure by quitting smoking and not drinking soda.
    No plan has addressed behavior.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You would have to have a similar model to insurance companies, in other words some investment from unused funds, you would have to have reserve funds, and it would have to be run like a business because it would have a self funding mechanism. It would have to have a risk analysis department, and most of all, politicians would have to be told "hands off!" The overall point is, without legit reform neither this nor nothing else can work. Fundamental fixes are the only option, however this idea has been shelved at the moment.
    Yep. That's part of the reason that I had mine as a Co-op, separate but funded by the government. Then it operates as a business without gov't interference.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Yep. That's part of the reason that I had mine as a Co-op, separate but funded by the government. Then it operates as a business without gov't interference.
    Correct. You get accountability, competition, and a self-funded option so it isn't an entitlement in the true sense. If the price is reasonable I don't see any reason it can't compete and make a majority of people happy.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Do you consider diabetes to be a disability?
    I'd say it's a sickness but not a disability.

    A lot of people can benefit from diet control diabetes management.
    I don't know your specific case, so I'm not saying whether or not you can.
    The point is, though, that people aren't making life changes to adjust for these problems or changes to prevent them.

    As an example, a guy I work with(in his 50's) has high blood pressure and complains about the cost of his medicine.
    He smokes and drinks lots of salty soft drinks.
    He could, in theory, help his high blood pressure by quitting smoking and not drinking soda.
    No plan has addressed behavior.
    Not sure. It is an affliction that results in pre-existing condition.

    I don't like the idea of extending insurance or not based on behavior.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    As an example, a guy I work with(in his 50's) has high blood pressure and complains about the cost of his medicine.
    He smokes and drinks lots of salty soft drinks.
    He could, in theory, help his high blood pressure by quitting smoking and not drinking soda.
    No plan has addressed behavior.
    Heh... When my blood pressure got so high that I required medication, guess what I did? Stopped smoking and stopped taking the birth control pill (both contributed to the high blood pressure)

    Guess what happened? My blood pressure automagically went down and no more medication!

    People are free to do as they wish with their own bodies, of course. I just don't want to hear people bitch and moan about the cost of their healthcare while they are *causing* their own health problems. Additionally, I don't want to pay for people like the woman in the other thread who is purposefully gaining weight to get to 1000 pounds, or anyone else who does knowingly unhealthy things and has medical issues because of it and continues to do those unhealthy things and expects ME to ****ing pay for it.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't like the idea of extending insurance or not based on behavior.
    That's not really it.

    It's about changing behavior.
    The only way to really change it, is to make things cost more out of pocket.

    You get insurance but going to the doctor costs a bit more money than a $20 co pay.
    Using their services should be for absolute need and not because of lazy personal health management.
    (Not calling you lazy but many people handle their health in a lazy manner.)
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Not sure. It is an affliction that results in pre-existing condition.

    I don't like the idea of extending insurance or not based on behavior.
    Lifestyle choices and risk. Underwriters are hired to accept or deny applications based upon statistics, risk, and other factors. Actuaries calculate literally every scenario imaginable and use real world data to class risk, and they are damn good at what they do; they can tell you how many people of every demographic will suffer x the next fiscal year within +/- one life.

    The way things work in life, certain occupations are found to statistically have more risky behaviors, as well, things like an OWI show a risk taking lifestyle, meaning your odds of dying young increase. Health adds an additional twist: Your lifestyle could lead to illnesses, and conditions can lead to an increase in use of care, so much like in car insurance where a bad driver will have a hell of a time finding insurance an unhealthy person is treated as a walking crapshoot. It's not a great thing to have to say that, but it is the statistical and numerical reality of health.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Heh... When my blood pressure got so high that I required medication, guess what I did? Stopped smoking and stopped taking the birth control pill (both contributed to the high blood pressure)

    Guess what happened? My blood pressure automagically went down and no more medication!

    People are free to do as they wish with their own bodies, of course. I just don't want to hear people bitch and moan about the cost of their healthcare while they are *causing* their own health problems. Additionally, I don't want to pay for people like the woman in the other thread who is purposefully gaining weight to get to 1000 pounds, or anyone else who does knowingly unhealthy things and has medical issues because of it and continues to do those unhealthy things and expects ME to ****ing pay for it.
    Exactly, that shouldn't be allowed with regards to that woman.

    I smoke and when I take Tylenol I can feel my blood pressure rise.
    It sounds hokey but light meditation can bring your blood pressure down.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, there was a Supreme Court decision in 1937, that upheld the right of the Government to force people to pay Social Security taxes, that is applicable here. Doesn't make it right, though, but it does make it legal.
    That's not even close to the same thing.

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