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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #831
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post


    I see you fell for the spin too.
    They are not death panels.
    You better read the bill yourself. The bill is not as bad as the spinmasters made it out to be. The 30 million people that finally get insurance are not going to vote republican.
    Blah Blah Blah. Rationed care can mean life or death. Rationing has been provided for IN THE BILL. Therefore it isn't spin.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 03-23-10 at 04:21 PM.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Check this out in regards to the fine for not having insurance.

    "(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such
    taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
    "

    http://docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/1...d.pdf#page=336

    You don't have to pay the fine and insurance companies must cover sick people.
    An even worse combination.
    Lovely.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    [quote=USA-1;1058636841]
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post


    I see you fell for the spin too.
    They are not death panels.
    You better read the bill yourself. The bill is not as bad as the spinmasters made it out to be. The 30 million people that finally get insurance are not going to vote republican.


    The ones that don't want it and are force to buy it sure as hell will.....
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You are asking someone to prove a negative? It doesn't work that way. I think the proper way to settle this would be to have Jallman post the relevant parts. That way, this gets settled immediately. I bet that jallman is right, but you still can't demand that someone prove a negative.
    If you just go to opencongress.org and get the copy of the bill there, you can check out the whole thing. It's pretty thick in the language but I reference pages 29-43 in regards to the rationing of health care part. It's really something that builds on itself from point to point, in my opinion. Check out that part and then raise whatever disagreements you have with me, but I can't quote 14 pages verbatim right here.

  5. #835
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post


    I see you fell for the spin too.
    They are not death panels.
    Yeah, okay... "Rationing Panels", if you will. A person who decides what health services will be rationed according to the amount of money available.

    You better read the bill yourself.
    You better take your own advice.

    The bill is not as bad as the spinmasters made it out to be. The 30 million people that finally get insurance are not going to vote republican.
    Thank god that's a small percentage of the population.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You are asking someone to prove a negative? It doesn't work that way. I think the proper way to settle this would be to have Jallman post the relevant parts. That way, this gets settled immediately. I bet that jallman is right, but you still can't demand that someone prove a negative.
    I'm not asking one to prove a negative.

    For instance, I'm not asking him to prove they're NOT in the Bill.

    Its been shown to be IN the Bill according to what Jallman was saying. On page 30 there are committees overseeing your health care choices, ala what the insurance companies currently do, but without an appeals process.

    While not technically a "Death Panel" to the extent that was trumpted, this was the provision that caused the concern as its MORE restrictive then what the insurance companies currently do and places it into the governments hands.

    What I was asking him to do was not to prove a negative, that such generalized legislation wasn't in the bill, but to prove the things Jallman did say was in the bill really aren't.

    Granted, he is absolutely correct if he meant there are nothing specifically called "Death panels" in the bill. However, in the spirit of what he said, the thing Jallman quoted was the impotenence for the claims of "Death Panels" which, while incredibly stupid rhetoric in the name, was roughly correct in their general argument.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    I see you fell for the spin too.
    They are not death panels.
    You better read the bill yourself. The bill is not as bad as the spinmasters made it out to be. The 30 million people that finally get insurance are not going to vote republican.
    What makes you believe 30 million people will get insurance?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #838
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    What makes you believe 30 million people will get insurance?
    Common sense.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Whoa whoa whoa...I didn't say "death panels" were in the bill. The pages in question do speak very heavily about the role of a Health Choices Commissioner who will expand and reduce health care options, with no appeal process, based on available resources.
    Correct, but you later touch on the point I'm making. If someone is so stupidly saying "there's no deaht panels" in there meaning, LITERALLY, there's nothing that says "Death Panel" in teh bill then they're correct...but that's a stupid point.

    If they mean "there's no death panels in the Bill", ie "there are no panels that oversee the rationing of health care that is a more restrictive process than is currently present with insurance companies and places what level of treatment you get in the hands of government beuracrats with no method of appealing" which is what "Death Panels" were the hyper rhetoric term for, then they need to somehow prove that the very words already posted about in this thread somehow don't actually exist and we're all imagining it when we see them there.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yeah, okay... "Rationing Panels", if you will. A person who decides what health services will be rationed according to the amount of money available.
    I guess that would be a better way to put it.

    To summarize it, here is some text from the bill:

    (2) INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.—If the Secretary es23
    timates for any fiscal year that the aggregate
    24 amounts available for payment of expenses of the
    25 high-risk pool will be less than the amount of the ex-
    1 penses, the Secretary shall make such adjustments
    2 as are necessary to eliminate such deficit, including
    3 reducing benefits, increasing premiums, or establishing waiting lists.

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