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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #681
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    That's not a subsidy, that is benefit insurance. Subsidized would be the government being the major contributory. Wrong, the plan on the market can be less expensive if you are in good health, you may still come out ahead from pre-tax revenue, as well, if healthcare is such a big problem, why weren't tax breaks or credits first tried to allow for the purchase of individual insurance under IRS tax code? Too simplistic, there are different contribution models, some are non-contributory and some are partially contributory, co-pays are built into that model, and itemized bills are available.

    Okay, you can stop trying to lecture me on how my profession works, I've taken the courses and worked the field, I have the manuals. Medicare uses various models, not necessarily HMO's, they use supplemental plans which meet the department most of the way, medicare advantage plans, etc. The bill does not cover these types of models, so.....apples and oranges.
    I realize it is a benefit insurance, but the way it is administered it is subsidize through the tax code. Why do you think people with realatively higher wages tend to also have a more generous health benefits package?

  2. #682
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I doubt your position will play out. For instance, if someone will go to the emergency room once a month, how often do you suppose they will be in a doctor's office, probably times six, those bills add up.
    How can you make that assumption? You are telling me to expect this as if it's a forgone conclusion. I can't do that. Look I don't know how this thing will play out. I am behind the cause of providing health care to those who can't truly afford it. I don't know that this bill is the answer. But you can't makes incredible leaps like that without some sort of evidence that supports your statement.

    You're claiming this bill will result in a dramatic increase in overuse of the health care system. Is this a hypothesis you can support with corroborating information? Or just your gut instinct?
    *insert profound statement here*

  3. #683
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Why do you assume the uninsured would go to the doctor more frequently than they now go to the ER?
    Exactly the reason I explained to Lerxst, no accountability. IOW, basically people prone to go see a doctor for low pain tolerance issues like the sniffles, attention seekers, and hypochondriacs will abuse the system because they either "paid their fair share" or it "was free".
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    How can you make that assumption? You are telling me to expect this as if it's a forgone conclusion. I can't do that. Look I don't know how this thing will play out. I am behind the cause of providing health care to those who can't truly afford it. I don't know that this bill is the answer. But you can't makes incredible leaps like that without some sort of evidence that supports your statement.

    You're claiming this bill will result in a dramatic increase in overuse of the health care system. Is this a hypothesis you can support with corroborating information? Or just your gut instinct?
    I think we have a misunderstanding. I don't mind indigent social insurance, or even a true public option that must be voluntary with a self-funding mechanism, but I have a serious problem with this being called reform, because it fixes none of the core issues. If we actually got things working again and healthcare became a commodity and affordable it would accomplish what we want to see without further empowering Washington. As it is this thing is a power grab.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    Very true! The health care bill is confusing, but what we do know is that massive tax increases are quickly heading our direction.

    It's like being in the eye of the storm.
    But only if you are well off making big bucks. The rich should be grateful that they are rich enough to help others who are poor.

  6. #686
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Most people opposed to the bill don't even know what it is.
    So you read all +2600 pages? You do know what is in it?

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Exactly the reason I explained to Lerxst, no accountability. IOW, basically people prone to go see a doctor for low pain tolerance issues like the sniffles, attention seekers, and hypochondriacs will abuse the system because they either "paid their fair share" or it "was free".
    The uninsured don't pay for medical care anyway.
    Are you uninsured? Do you know anyone who is?
    Do you really think they pay $200 out of pocket for an office visit whenever they need to see a doctor, and then another hundred or more for prescription drugs?

    If they could afford to do that, they wouldn't be uninsured in the first place; they'd buy insurance.
    Uninsured people use free and sliding scale community health clinics- to whatever extent these are available- and the ER, which costs ten times as much as an office visit, but which- haha- you don't ever have to pay.
    You can walk in the ER without ID and give a fake name and address; they'll still treat you. I know, because my husband and I have both done it many times.
    Or you can walk in and give your real info, and they'll send you these monstrous bills- 20 or 30 thousand dollars- for awhile and then eventually they'll turn it over to a medical debt collection agency, and the collection agency will call and pester you with recorded messages for a few months, and then eventually they'll just give up and drop it, and then, you know what?
    Eventually it all just drops off your credit, and it's like it never happened.

    Honestly, that's what happens.

    It would probably be better if uninsured people could just see GPs for office visits when they're sick. But chances are they don't just have an extra $400 bucks lying around every time they get strep throat or an ear infection and need antibiotics.

    In my state, one out of three adults is uninsured.
    That's a lot of people using the ER as a primary care physician.
    it's a broken system and a federal money-suck.
    Anything would be better.
    Last edited by 1069; 03-23-10 at 12:43 AM.

  8. #688
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    So you read all +2600 pages? You do know what is in it?
    Don't need to. It's called science. If no one knows what's in it, then no one can argue FOR it.

  9. #689
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    The uninsured don't pay for medical care anyway.
    Some of us actually do pay for services rendered. Please don't lump everyone who is uninsured in one big loser category of people who steal from others.

    Are you uninsured?
    Yes.

    Do you know anyone who is?
    Yes.

    Do you really think they pay $200 out of pocket for an office visit whenever they need to see a doctor, and then another hundred or more for prescription drugs?
    Yes. (though $200 is a bit ****ing pricey, never seen a doc who charged that much for just an office visit)

    If they could afford to do that, they wouldn't be uninsured in the first place; they'd buy insurance.
    Not true. Many people who are uninsured most certainly *could* afford insurance. We CHOOSE not to have it.

    Uninsured people use free and sliding scale community health clinics- to whatever extent these are available- and the ER, which costs ten times as much as an office visit, but which- haha- you don't ever have to pay.
    You can walk in the ER without ID and give a fake name and address; they'll still treat you. I know, because my husband and I have both done it many times.
    Yay for theft. Go pat yourself on the back for stealing from others. Awesome.

    Not everyone is so low class though. Some people actually DO have a conscience, and that includes many of the uninsured.

    It would probably be better if uninsured people could just see GPs for office visits when they're sick.
    They can.

    But chances are they don't just have an extra $400 bucks lying around every time they get strep throat or an ear infection and need antibiotics.
    Oh please. An office visit doesn't cost anywhere near that and neither do antibiotics.

  10. #690
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Exactly the reason I explained to Lerxst, no accountability. IOW, basically people prone to go see a doctor for low pain tolerance issues like the sniffles, attention seekers, and hypochondriacs will abuse the system because they either "paid their fair share" or it "was free".
    No kidding. There aint no one that goes to the ER more for non-emergency reasons than Medicaid/Medicare recipients. But what do I know? I only drove them there in an ambulance.

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