Page 68 of 114 FirstFirst ... 1858666768697078 ... LastLast
Results 671 to 680 of 1136

Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #671
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I guess I take umbrage with the idea that there are "too many patients." If those seeking medical care actually need it, then how are there "too many?" How many uninsured aren't getting medical attention when they need it? Certainly there are many who simply use the E.R. as a their primary physician. There is already a very large cost for this kind of care. Many times it is to treat illnesses that could have been mitigated before an E.R. visit was necessary.
    Too many patients is the wrong way to look at it. But there will be too many "unfunded" patients, and there will be too many "overusing" patients. Think of it this way, people with private insurance may not abuse it because they still have to pay out of pocket expenses or deductibles or a combination of both, so when they go for services it will be during a time of definite need. By the nature of subsidized care, some will simply not care who's paying and use the services every time they have a stomach ache, nevermind it could have a perfectly logical explanation like eating too much spice, gas, overeating, hangover.....won't matter, they don't have to foot the bill, we do.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #672
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Too many patients is the wrong way to look at it. But there will be too many "unfunded" patients, and there will be too many "overusing" patients. Think of it this way, people with private insurance may not abuse it because they still have to pay out of pocket expenses or deductibles or a combination of both, so when they go for services it will be during a time of definite need. By the nature of subsidized care, some will simply not care who's paying and use the services every time they have a stomach ache, nevermind it could have a perfectly logical explanation like eating too much spice, gas, overeating, hangover.....won't matter, they don't have to foot the bill, we do.
    You have to realize though, that the private insdustry already recieves a huge amount of subsidy. Most people who have private insurance recieve it through their employer. Employers have continued to offer more and more generous health insurance benefits because it is essentially a tax shelter from federal, state, and local goverments. Had you instead taken higher wages and gone out and bought your own insurance it would be far more expensive because you would be paying taxes on all of that income before buying insurance. Furthermore, since employers are the ones actually paying the insurance bill it further seperates the consumers from the actual cost of health care, not to mention the moral hazard already associated with insurance of any type.

    One advantage private health care has over medicare is they typically do not pay like a fee for service plan. Therefore they are not subjuct to the supply induced demand associated with medicare. However, medicare and medicaid has been increasingly using HMO's to provide care, which in this case, reverses the effects of supply induced demand and actually results in underconsumption.

  3. #673
    Every day I'm hustlin'..
    Lerxst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nationwide...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,407

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Too many patients is the wrong way to look at it. But there will be too many "unfunded" patients, and there will be too many "overusing" patients. Think of it this way, people with private insurance may not abuse it because they still have to pay out of pocket expenses or deductibles or a combination of both, so when they go for services it will be during a time of definite need. By the nature of subsidized care, some will simply not care who's paying and use the services every time they have a stomach ache, nevermind it could have a perfectly logical explanation like eating too much spice, gas, overeating, hangover.....won't matter, they don't have to foot the bill, we do.
    That's assuming an awful lot about peoples health care habits don't you think? Are they already doing it now with the E.R.? Less expensive office visits would only help the situation. If they are predisposed to overusing the system they are probably already doing it. How will this bill change their habits? Do you really think that those who are uninsured now, and not getting any real health care, will of a sudden just go "health care crazy?" We are already paying for these overusers/abusers as it is.

    Or will they possibly start going to the their doctor when they need to because now they can?

    See where I am coming from on this?
    Last edited by Lerxst; 03-23-10 at 12:05 AM.
    *insert profound statement here*

  4. #674
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    10-26-10 @ 06:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,978

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Too many patients is the wrong way to look at it. But there will be too many "unfunded" patients, and there will be too many "overusing" patients. Think of it this way, people with private insurance may not abuse it because they still have to pay out of pocket expenses or deductibles or a combination of both, so when they go for services it will be during a time of definite need. By the nature of subsidized care, some will simply not care who's paying and use the services every time they have a stomach ache, nevermind it could have a perfectly logical explanation like eating too much spice, gas, overeating, hangover.....won't matter, they don't have to foot the bill, we do.
    There will always be people who scurry to the doctor for every cramp and twinge... and there will always be others who stoically refuse to see a doctor- out of stubbornness or out of fear- no matter how serious their symptoms are.
    People are diagnosed with stage 4 cancer every day.
    By the time your cancer is stage 4, you've likely been living with pretty serious symptoms for years.

    There will always be some who overuse doctors, and some who under-use them.
    Those are basically the two sides of the hypochondriac coin (and I should know, because I'm a hypochondriac).
    Either you go to the doctor constantly because you're afraid you're dying of a terrible disease... or you never go to the doctor, because you're afraid you're dying of a terrible disease.

    Anyway, neither one of these categories comprise the majority of Americans.
    Most people go to the doctor responsibly, for regular checkups and screenings or when they feel really sick.
    As for the other two categories- people who go way too often and people who don't go nearly often enough- those people will do those things whether or not they're insured, because it's not money that's driving them; it's psychological issues.
    Every ER in the country right now is full of people with sinus infections, bladder infections, sore throats, indigestion and heartburn.
    People who over-use doctors will do so whether or not they're insured, whether or not they can ever pay.
    Right now, ERs aren't allowed to turn them away, no matter how silly their complaints.

    When these people have another alternative, perhaps ERs won't have to see them.
    Last edited by 1069; 03-23-10 at 12:11 AM.

  5. #675
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The healthcare bill costs $172 billion/year.
    Iraq costs $105 billion/year.

    The healthcare bill costs more.
    What did we get out of Iraq?

    Oh yeah, a destabilized region, massive insurgency, massive debt....

    In terms of bang for your buck, I'm leaning toward health care reform...

  6. #676
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    That's assuming an awful lot about peoples health care habits don't you think? Are they already doing it now with the E.R.? Less expensive office visits would only help the situation. If they are predisposed to overusing the system they are probably already doing it. How will this bill change their habits? Do you really think that those who are uninsured now, and not getting any real health care, will of a sudden just go "health care crazy?" We are already paying for these overusers/abusers as it is.

    Or will they possibly start going to the their doctor when they need to because now they can?

    See where I am coming from on this?
    I doubt your position will play out. For instance, if someone will go to the emergency room once a month, how often do you suppose they will be in a doctor's office, probably times six, those bills add up.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #677
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,129

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    If America gets the next two elections right and finally rids itself of some of the old trash in Washington it can be gone in 2012.
    No Chance.

    What Republican in their right mind is going to stand in front of their constituents and explain why they kicked people off of their health insurance because they reinstituted a plan that allows people to be excluded for pre-existing illnesses?

    What Republican is their right mind is going to stand in front of their constitutients and explain why young adults are being kicked off their parents insurance because they thougt it was a good idea to go back to the old system?

    The only chance the Republicans had of stopping progress was to try to defeat this bill at this level. You are fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  8. #678
    Sage
    lizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    between two worlds
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,581

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    That's assuming an awful lot about peoples health care habits don't you think? Are they already doing it now with the E.R.? Less expensive office visits would only help the situation.
    Yes they are, and no, less expensive office visits probably won't help the situation. What this will do is increase utilization at taxpayer expense. Only about half of us pay income taxes as it is.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  9. #679
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    10-26-10 @ 06:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,978

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I doubt your position will play out. For instance, if someone will go to the emergency room once a month, how often do you suppose they will be in a doctor's office, probably times six, those bills add up.
    Why do you assume the uninsured would go to the doctor more frequently than they now go to the ER?

    People who have spent their entire adult lives uninsured go to the ER whenever they feel the need to see a doctor.
    They treat the ER exactly like a free walk-in clinic.
    Why shouldn't they? They'd already accrued more medical debt before they were twenty than they'd ever be able to pay in a thousand lifetimes.
    They quit worrying about medical debt before they were old enough to buy a legal beer.

  10. #680
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    You have to realize though, that the private insdustry already recieves a huge amount of subsidy. Most people who have private insurance recieve it through their employer.
    That's not a subsidy, that is benefit insurance. Subsidized would be the government being the major contributory.
    Employers have continued to offer more and more generous health insurance benefits because it is essentially a tax shelter from federal, state, and local goverments. Had you instead taken higher wages and gone out and bought your own insurance it would be far more expensive because you would be paying taxes on all of that income before buying insurance.
    Wrong, the plan on the market can be less expensive if you are in good health, you may still come out ahead from pre-tax revenue, as well, if healthcare is such a big problem, why weren't tax breaks or credits first tried to allow for the purchase of individual insurance under IRS tax code?
    Furthermore, since employers are the ones actually paying the insurance bill it further seperates the consumers from the actual cost of health care, not to mention the moral hazard already associated with insurance of any type.
    Too simplistic, there are different contribution models, some are non-contributory and some are partially contributory, co-pays are built into that model, and itemized bills are available.

    One advantage private health care has over medicare is they typically do not pay like a fee for service plan. Therefore they are not subjuct to the supply induced demand associated with medicare. However, medicare and medicaid has been increasingly using HMO's to provide care, which in this case, reverses the effects of supply induced demand and actually results in underconsumption.
    Okay, you can stop trying to lecture me on how my profession works, I've taken the courses and worked the field, I have the manuals. Medicare uses various models, not necessarily HMO's, they use supplemental plans which meet the department most of the way, medicare advantage plans, etc. The bill does not cover these types of models, so.....apples and oranges.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

Page 68 of 114 FirstFirst ... 1858666768697078 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •