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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Where was your concern when Bush got us into a war that will cost more than this heathcare bill?
    The healthcare bill costs $172 billion/year.
    Iraq costs $105 billion/year.

    The healthcare bill costs more.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    if you were actually right, then there would be no need for this bill ... the one you are so opposed to having been successful
    Insurance reform does not equal healthcare. If you have a heart attack and go to the ER, the hospital must treat you regardless of your plan. This reform took place to further enslave the country before the federal government and to push a damaging agenda. It's government take over of healthcare, which means more power to the federal government and less to the people.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by pendulum_jaw View Post
    It's truly breathtaking how ignorant our electorate is. Reading some of these posts, one can really appreciate just how worthless our education system is in this country...

    Watching people cheer legislation which steals wealth from some Americans to give to others is sickening enough, but what is really astonishing is observing these useful idiots essentially cheering their own demise. It would be like watching the Jews in 1945 hooraying and tickling each other on they gleefully ran into the gas chamber.
    Haha...it's funny because it's stupid.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Okay, I'm done bitching about this bill. Now we should all just sit back to wait and see just how good or bad it is.

    Does anyone believe it can ever be repealed? It will (pleasantly) surprise the hell out of me if it is. But I doubt it. We love our entitlements.
    Last edited by Telecaster; 03-22-10 at 11:37 PM.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I did some more digging, Lerxst, and I went to the CBO Estimate itself, issued on 3/20/10.

    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc...onProposal.pdf

    In Table 4 you will see the expenses. Now there are two sections. They are titled "Effects on Insurance Coverage", which is counting covered people, and "Effects on the Federal Deficit", which is in Billions of dollars. I am looking at the column for 2019, when the program is fully ramped up.

    Under "Effects on the Federal Deficit", for 2019, the Total is $172 billion.
    Thanks for this info, I will read further. I'm looking now for a plan to offset some of the expense...possibly cuts to other programs. Surely this isn't a straight up tax increase.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
    Okay, I'm done bitching about this bill. Now we should all just sit back and see just how good or bad it is.

    Does anyone believe it can ever be repealed? It will (pleasantly) surprise the hell out of me if it is. But I doubt it. We love our entitlements.
    If America gets the next two elections right and finally rids itself of some of the old trash in Washington it can be gone in 2012.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    mad Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Insurance reform does not equal healthcare. If you have a heart attack and go to the ER, the hospital must treat you regardless of your plan. This reform took place to further enslave the country before the federal government and to push a damaging agenda. It's government take over of healthcare, which means more power to the federal government and less to the people.
    +1

    Never in the history of the U.S. government have they forced private American citizens to purchase a consumer good or service. Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution does it authorize the federal government the power to mandate and force a private citizen to purchase another private good or service simply because they live in America.

    Where in the Constitution does it suggest the federal government has the authority to do such a thing? If you by a car, it makes sense that you buy car insurance. You made the decision to buy the car, so you must therefore buy car insurance.

    It does NOT make sense to me if you're born a U.S. citizen, you therefore must buy private health care. That's overstepping their power and enforcing law that they have no constitutional right to do so. This bill is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    It's called socialism. This is exactly what will happen in a redistributive socialized health care system. And guess what? There's also 'rationed care' due to overwhelming the system with too many patients. So not only do you pay more, but you get much less in return.
    I guess I take umbrage with the idea that there are "too many patients." If those seeking medical care actually need it, then how are there "too many?" How many uninsured aren't getting medical attention when they need it? Certainly there are many who simply use the E.R. as a their primary physician. There is already a very large cost for this kind of care. Many times it is to treat illnesses that could have been mitigated before an E.R. visit was necessary.

    So we know that a good deal of uninsured individuals are in fact impacting the cost of health care. It's pretty much understood that decent preventative care would be less expensive than use of the E.R. as a primary source of medical treatment.

    So what I need to understand is how you determine what percentage of our population makes up the "too many patients" that are to be added to the health care situation. I am assuming these patients are those who simply do not get any kind of care at all right now. Is this correct?

    How many "new patients" are going to be added to the health care system?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Total bull****, I would know, it's one line of sales in my profession. You pay into a pool of money, weighted against risk. But please feel free to keep up with this fallacy, wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of your rant.
    Yes, but are doctors not required to provide critical care regardless of your financial standings? Who takes the bill if this causes you to go into bankruptcy?

    Edit: Doctors in the ER.
    Last edited by drz-400; 03-22-10 at 11:53 PM.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Only 40% of the people support this albatross....
    Rev, were you the one that told me once that polls mean nothing? Was this mantra used during the last presidential election?

    As with other things, they have issues, e.g. who takes them, who they call, and the demograhics they select.


    Link [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasmussen_Reports]Rasmussen Reports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Reputation

    TIME has described Rasmussen Reports as a "conservative-leaning polling group".[10] Democratic Party activists have pointed out that Scott Rasmussen was a paid consultant for the 2004 George W. Bush campaign.[11] According to Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight.com, while there are no apparent records of Scott Rasmussen or Rasmussen Reports making contributions to political candidates and its public election polls are generally regarded as reliable, "some observers have questioned its issue-based polling, which frequently tends to elicit responses that are more conservative than those found on other national surveys."[12].

    John Marshal of Talking Points Memo commented on their reliability in a February 2009 article:[13][14]

    The toplines tend to be a bit toward the Republican side of the spectrum, compared to the average of other polls. But if you factor that in they're pretty reliable. And the frequency that Rasmussen is able to turn them around -- because they're based on robocalls -- gives them added value in terms of teasing out trends. But the qualitative questions, in terms of their phrasing and so forth, are frequently skewed to give answers friendly toward GOP or conservative viewpoints. All of which is to say that his numbers are valuable. But they need to be read with that bias in mind.

    Rasmussen has received criticism over the wording in its polls.[15] Examples of Rasmussen's questions with wording issues include:

    * Agree or Disagree: "Rush Limbaugh is the leader of the Republican Party. He says jump, and they say how high."[16]
    * Do you favor or oppose the economic recovery package proposed by Barack Obama and the Congressional Democrats?[17]
    * Suppose that Democrats agreed on a health care reform bill that is opposed by all Republicans in Congress. Should the Democrats pass that bill or should they change the bill to win support from a reasonable number of Republicans?[18]
    * Do you agree or disagree with the following statement... itís always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money?[19]

    Some of Rasmussen polls have contained two different weights for questions, depending on the party of the statesman in the question.[20] In one example, the first question asks for a job rating for Tim Pawlenty, a Republican governor, using an approve/disapprove scale. The next question asks for the way that Al Franken, a Democratic senator, is performing his role, but uses a Excellent/Good/Fair/Poor scale. Nick Panagakis of Pollster.com has pointed out that, when using the latter scale, "approval is often reported by combining the top two and bottom two scores", including the "fair" score as a "disapproval" vote.
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