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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
    Maybe passed. But the fight isn't over. This can be tied up in the courts for years, and my prediction is that it will be.

    Fully 73% of Americans are againt this bill. The Democrats have clearly shown that they do not give a damn for the American people, for the United Sates, or for our liberty, for which thousands of Americans have died to defend since our founding.

    This is WAR. I'm 66 and a Vietnam vet. Let the war begin. I am not goint to allow this idiot of a president (illegal as he is) and a bunch of anti-American Marxist Congressmen and Senators destroy my grand childrens liberty.
    This guy has got to be removed from office by whatever means.
    This is what lost Republicans the 2008 Presidential election. Instead of making informative arguements of why Obama's plans wouldn't work they said he was an illegal immigrant and was communist and hates America. Don't you guys ever learn?

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    a decent discussion (LOL!) might include:

    there's some good things in this bill, no fair minded person could deny

    pre-existers, portability, some control of murderous premium hikes...

    but, altho laudable, they are MICRO in effect

    compared to the MACRO's, like:

    HOW ARE YOU GONNA PAY FOR 2/3 OF THIS BY STAUNCHING ALL THAT GOVT WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE?

    you wanted a decent (LOL!) discussion

    wouldn't such a confab require THOUGHT?

    about BIG stuff?

    like:

    HOW DO YOU MASSIVELY (HALF A T) CUT M AND M WHILE SIMULTANEOULSY EXPANDING BOTH BY THIRTY ONE MIL, according to the authors of the bill?

    economically, this is gonna be a disaster---it's NOT paid for and you all know it

    decent discussion... (LOL!)

    there's the DOC FIX, remember THAT?

    a QUARTER TRIL's a lot of money, no?

    ie, BIG, IMPORTANT, certainly central to any decent (LOL!) discussion

    there's all that DOUBLE COUNTING, according to cbo

    forgotten?

    you want the LINKS?

    again?

    there's the TWO HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS of UNPAID FOR OBLIGATIONS IMPOSED UPON OUR BANKRUPT STATES, the "mother of unfunded mandates," according to tennessee's phil bredesen, speaking for blue gov's gregoire, ritter, schweitzer, bill (pay to play) richardson...

    socially, this is gonna be a disaster

    we're gonna see WAIT TIMES, a DOC SHORTAGE, the REFUSAL of caregivers to TAKE m and m patients

    ask KENT CONRAD (want the link?)

    you want a decent discussion, you need to look at the BIG things

    politically---this is gonna be a blue disaster

    reds will take everything, from house to senate to new york to california

    blue bastions are like blue dogs, no more

    you'll see

    congrats on your accomplishment

    live with it proudly, progressively

    why is president pieface "planning a blitz to boost public opinion of his health care effort," according to wapo (and everyone else)?

    LOL!

    all of which means, of course, health care is dead

    obama killed it

    sorry
    Last edited by The Prof; 03-22-10 at 08:24 PM.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    This is what lost Republicans the 2008 Presidential election. Instead of making informative arguements of why Obama's plans wouldn't work they said he was an illegal immigrant and was communist and hates America. Don't you guys ever learn?
    No. You had an old white guy running against a young black guy and when you really looked at the things they voted on or supported there wasn't enough difference to pick the old white guy, so youth won. There was plenty of substantive things about Obama's past, writings, and associations to say we would be exactly where we find ourselves, no one listened when it mattered.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
    Maybe passed. But the fight isn't over. This can be tied up in the courts for years, and my prediction is that it will be.
    I don't know if anyone will be successful fighting this in the courts. By the time that process is done, most of the damage will have already been done.

    Our best hope is to fight it at the ballot box. And the first step in doing that is to show how this was not a vote of conviction or in any kind of belief that it would accomplish anything that the Congressional leaders or the President tell us it will accomplish.

    We've already discussed the Louisiana Purchase, the Cornhusker Kickback, and other shenanigans that got the previous bills passed in the House and Senate, but those bills were too far apart for reconciliation. Pelosi said and Obama seemed to concede that they didn't have the votes.

    So let's just look at a little bit of what Obama and Pelosi did to turn 'no' votes into 'yes' votes and raise the legislation from the dead culminating in that triumphal march to the microphones. Show me in there ANYWHERE in which there is any conviction that this was about healthcare for Americans.



    Excerpt

    President Obama flew to Pennsylvania (home to five wavering House Democrats), Missouri (three wavering), Ohio (eight), and Virginia (four) to hold rallies with small, supportive crowds. In four days, Mr. Obama held 64 meetings or calls with congressmen. The goal was to let undecideds know that the president had them in his crosshairs, that he still had pull with the base, and he'd use it against them. By Saturday the tactic had yielded yes votes from at least half the previously undecided members of those states.

    As for those who needed more persuasion: California Rep. Jim Costa bragged publicly that during his meeting in the Oval Office, he'd demanded the administration increase water to his Central Valley district. On Tuesday, Interior pushed up its announcement, giving the Central Valley farmers 25% of water supplies, rather than the expected 5% allocation. Mr. Costa, who denies there was a quid pro quo, on Saturday said he'd flip to a yes.

    Florida Rep. Suzanne Kosmas (whose district is home to the Kennedy Space Center) admitted that in her own Thursday meeting with the president, she'd brought up the need for more NASA funding. On Friday she flipped to a yes. So watch the NASA budget.

    Democrats inserted a new provision providing $100 million in extra Medicaid money for Tennessee. Retiring Tennessee Rep. Bart Gordon flipped to a yes vote on Thursday.

    Outside heavies were enlisted to warn potential no votes that unions and other Democrats would run them out of Congress.
    Al Lawson, a Tallahassee liberal challenging Blue Dog Florida Rep. Allen Boyd in a primary, made Mr. Boyd's previous no vote the centerpiece of his criticism. The SEIU threatened to yank financial support for New York's Michael McMahon. The liberal Working Families Party said it would deny him a ballot line. Obama deputy campaign manager Steve Hildebrand vowed to challenge South Dakota Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin if she voted no. New York's Scott Murphy was targeted as a part of a $1.3 million union-financed ad campaign to pressure him to flip. Moveon.Org spent another $36,000 on ads in his district and promised a primary. Messrs. Boyd and Murphy caved on Friday.

    All the while Mrs. Pelosi was desperately working to provide cover with a Congressional Budget Office score that would claim the bill "saved" money. To do it, Democrats threw in a further $66 billion in Medicare cuts and another $50 billion in taxes. Huzzah! In the day following the CBO score, about a half-dozen Democrats who had spent the past months complaining the bill already had too many taxes and Medicare cuts now said they were voting to reduce the deficit.

    Even with all this, by Friday Mrs. Pelosi was dealing with a new problem: The rule changes and deals winning her votes were losing her votes, too. The public backlash against "deem and pass" gave several wary Democrats—such as Massachusetts's Stephen Lynch and California's Dennis Cardoza—a new excuse to vote no.

    Mrs. Pelosi jettisoned deem and pass. Once-solid Democrat yes votes wanted their own concessions. Oregon's Pete DeFazio threatened to lead a revolt unless changes were made to Medicare payments to benefit his state. On Saturday Mrs. Pelosi cut a deal to give 17 states additional Medicare money.


    By the weekend, all the pressure and threats and bribes had left the speaker three to five votes short. Her remaining roadblock was those pro-life members who'd boxed themselves in on abortion, saying they would vote against the Senate bill unless it barred public funding of abortion. Mrs. Pelosi's first instinct was to go around this bloc, getting the votes elsewhere. She couldn't.

    Into Saturday night, Michigan's Bart Stupak and Mrs. Pelosi wrangled over options. The stalemate? Any change that gave Mr. Stupak what he wanted in law would lose votes from pro-choice members. The solution? Remove it from Congress altogether, having the president instead sign a meaningless executive order affirming that no public money should go to pay for abortions.

    The order won't change the Senate legal language—as pro-choice Democrats publicly crowed within minutes of the Stupak deal. Executive orders can be changed or eliminated on a whim. Pro-life groups condemned the order as the vote-getting ruse it was. Nevertheless, Mr. Stupak and several of his colleagues voted yes, paving the way to Mrs. Pelosi's final vote tally of 219.

    Even in these waning minutes, Senate Democrats were playing their own games. Republicans announced they had found language in the House reconciliation bill that could doom this entire "fix" in the Senate. Since many House Democrats only agreed to vote for the Senate bill on promises that the sidecar reconciliation would pass, this was potentially a last-minute killer.

    Senate Democrats handled it by deliberately refusing to meet with Republicans and the Senate parliamentarian to get a ruling, lest it be unfavorable and lose House votes. The dodge was a clear dereliction of duty, but Democrats figure the Senate parliamentarian won't dare derail this process after ObamaCare passes. They are probably right.

    So there you have it, folks: "How a Bill Becomes a Law," at least in Obama-Pelosi land.
    Full story here in the WSJ:
    Kimberley A. Strassel: Inside the Pelosi Sausage Factory - WSJ.com

    Makes you proud to be an American doesn't it.
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    OK I get people don't like the bill, but seriously? Learn to not overreact.

    Also, I am pretty sure people were saying the Republican Party was dead after the 2008 election, and look how that turned out.
    This is different. And I'm not overreacting. Democrats are done. Bank on it. We aren't going to forget.

    People said Republicans were dead for all the wrong reasons.

    Now we have a clear attempt to overthrow the Republican form of government that our founders created. That isn't what they voted for.

    Whether you recognize it or not, we are now at war.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
    Fully 73% of Americans are againt this bill.
    Just no.

    RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Obama and Democrats' Health Care Plan

    50.5 % average of polls through yesterday against.

    CNN poll: 59 percent of Americans oppose just-passed health-reform bill | Jay Bookman

    59 % opposed, with 13 % of those opposed because it is not liberal enough. This poll from today.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    it ISN'T liberal enough

    doing away with the PUBLIC OPTION and replacing it with a mandate to buy PRIVATE insurance is just STUPID

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Just no.

    RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Obama and Democrats' Health Care Plan

    50.5 % average of polls through yesterday against.

    CNN poll: 59 percent of Americans oppose just-passed health-reform bill | Jay Bookman

    59 % opposed, with 13 % of those opposed because it is not liberal enough. This poll from today.
    For some reason the republicans can not comprehend this no matter how many times it's explained to them.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    it ISN'T liberal enough

    doing away with the PUBLIC OPTION and replacing it with a mandate to buy PRIVATE insurance is just STUPID
    That's pretty liberal. j/k
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    it ISN'T liberal enough

    doing away with the PUBLIC OPTION and replacing it with a mandate to buy PRIVATE insurance is just STUPID
    Stupid how? We end up paying for the uninsured anyway. This bill will save billions by keeping them out of emergency rooms and practicing preventative medicine. You people just keep embarrassing yourselves by repeating the dumbest things.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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