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Thread: Health Care Bill has passed

  1. #481
    Androgyne
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
    Seems Sarah Palin is on Facebook, and is running her "non-campaign" from there. But since you just dismissed it as irrelevant, I guess she is too.
    Btw, it's a great grassroots source and vehicle...thought you just might like to know that, as if it would do you any good. LOL>
    I fail to see how considering a Facebook status as non-credible or irrelevant is comparable to considering a person non-credible or irrelevant.

  2. #482
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    what you're saying would be true if this bill were passed by and approved by a majority of the american people

    it wasn't

    it was forced thru by 219 individuals, all members of the party in power, who were pressured beyond all measure by their leaders

    we saw what the american people feel about this bill in massachusetts

    in virginia and jersey

    in all the polls

    the american people, by and large, HATE this bill

    and the INTENSITY of their feelings probably even dwarfs their huge numbers

    look at the "supporters" and "defenders" of this bill on THIS VERY THREAD

    even they don't really like it, they support it for the same reasons stupak and half the progressives did---to try to save this presidency from complete defeat

    well, now they own it, and there will be hell to pay

    look how obama today is out trying to SELL this bill, what's that tell you

    he's trying to REVERSE america's perception of obamacare

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    in the last month we have gone from a white house which arrogantly IGNORES the clearly expressed will of the american people to a 1600 pennsylvania that outright DEFIES us

    this is all done at the party's peril

    the prez may even get a small, short term bump in his approvals for the perception of his having gotten something done

    but the house and the senate are gonna crash

    and when junior learns that he's suddenly more illegal than jose just because our boy here has no coverage...

    and the long term realization---YOU CANNOT MASSIVELY EXPAND MEDICARE AND MEDICAID WHILE SIMULTAENOUSLY CUTTING BOTH ALREADY OVERSTRAINED ENTITLEMENTS BY HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS

    that's bedrock

    this is what underlies the pessimism even of the obamites on this thread

    THE CLAIM TO FUND TWO THIRDS OF THIS MASSIVE EXPANSION BY RECOVERING WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE IS AN INSULT TO EVERY HALFWAY INTELLIGENT AMERICAN

    the negatives on this bill are huge and PERMANENT

    americans are completely repulsed that their president and congress have so little RESPECT for their sentiments

    i hear a-g-e-n-d-a in your observations about tea and cons, i don't think your remarks particularly apply to this exact situation, tho they might fit better elsewhere

    my take

    party on, progressives

    the house and senate are MINE
    Those 219 "individuals" were not random guys off the street as the use of "individuals" implies, but Representatives, whose job it is in a republic is to represent us. We elected democrats in 2008. One of the principle planks of their platform was healthcare reform. They did their job. If their constituents feel they over-reached in the performance of those duties, they will be replaced.

    Yes, the health care bill was a loser in the polls. However, if you dissected those numbers, you would find about 35% that did not want health care reform by the Democrats. The middle of the road and independent voters were upset that 1) the bill lacked bi-partisan support (which was not going to happen since the Repub strategy was to say "no" and not seriously participate), 2) had all of these "deals" (which we can blame some of Repubs for painting the Democrats into the corner on this in the first place, and 3) this just went on and on and on and on. The left hated the bill because it was so watered down. All said, most of the country wanted health care reform.

    Of course, the opposition was never very interested in what the people wanted in the first place, otherwise the public option (60% support just prior to 1st passage) would be the law of the land today.

    I know the Republicans were looking for a pony in the barn after 2008 and saw that pony in New Jersey and Virginia. Sorry, but electing governors in a state are not indicative of how people feel about the President. A governor of a state is provincial, not national. Of course, you fail to talk about the one national race where a Democrat one in a district that had not be Democrat in 100 years. Scott Brown, OTH, is a legitimate expression of discontent. But he is the only one.

    I for one think the electorate will reward rather than punish the Dems in November. First, its going to be hard to make too much of an issue of success. The Repubs offered nothing, the Demos offered something and delivered (even if it was something less, it remains a landmark). Moreover, the people are tired of hearing about healthcare. If the Repubs want to be successful making an issue out of this they will have to re-frame the issue.

    Though I expect the Repubs to make electoral gains in 2010, as is custom in an off Presidential election year, the chance of the houses flipping, particularly the Senate are quite remote.

  3. #483
    Androgyne
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
    More credible (and more intelligent) than any of your Glenn Becks, Limbaughs or Hannitys, that's for damn sure.
    Again you are comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other.

  4. #484
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    and just look at him now, president pie-in-the-face

    after CANCELING his trip to the pacific so he could twist political arms on the capitol he's now gonna keep his myopic eye on THIS PIG OF A BILL until NOVEMBER

    the people are screaming for jobs, they're concerned for their economy, scared to death of deficits...

    and pieface is gonna keep up his coast-to-coast obamacare tour thru most of 2010

    pathetic

  5. #485
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Now they're claiming that a majority voting for something in Congress is anti-democratic.

    Just how absurd can they get?

  6. #486
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Now they're claiming that a majority voting for something in Congress is anti-democratic.

    Just how absurd can they get?
    Care to elaborate or this a private secret??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
    Seems Sarah Palin is on Facebook, and is running her "non-campaign" from there. But since you just dismissed it as irrelevant, I guess she is too.
    Btw, it's a great grassroots source and vehicle...thought you just might like to know that, as if it would do you any good. LOL>
    Gotta drag Sarah Palin in on this, don't ya?

    There should be a corollary to Godwin's Law about Sarah Palin.

  8. #488
    Androgyne
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Now they're claiming that a majority voting for something in Congress is anti-democratic.

    Just how absurd can they get?
    I think they are largely referring to the fact that according to the polls, a majority of the public doesn't support this bill. However, I think it's kind of cherry picking considering that many on the right had the attitude that polls and the public opinion doesn't matter when Bush was making controversial decisions. Both sides are hypocritical.

  9. #489
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    how are you gonna massively expand medicare and medicaid while cutting them half a T?

  10. #490
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    Re: Health Care Bill has passed

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    That's what you think is essential about this bill? Really? Those are things everyone must know in order to debate?

    How does the bill work? Describe the basics, in 100 words or less.
    That was just a part of the bill.

    A large portion of people will have their premiums rise, although that rise will be offset by the subsidies.
    Those not eligible for subsidies will see an average increase of about 10-13%.
    Minimum benefits will be increased, which is why the costs will rise.

    There is a $695 penalty(that will eventually tied to inflation/cpi/col, can't remember off the top of my head) for not having insurance, although there are temporary exemptions for religious beliefs, extreme poverty, etc.

    That are a few more things without highlighting what is already known.
    (Sorry for the late response, had to take my cat to the vet.)
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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